The Wallabies Thread

[Tomikin]

Agree, we'd need him to become a specialist THP if we plan to use him there. I suppose I'm saying that of the options, he seems like to most obvious to be developed as our premier THP. After Kepu and Holmes he's played THP for the Wallabies more than any other players kicking around. Plus I know very little about the dark arts, but I gather playing THP generally requires a greater deal of nous and expertise and I'd describe Slipper as a canny veteran at this point, who could probably develop into a decent THP if we committed to that approach.

I agree though he'd really have to commit to it, and probably switch to THP at Super Rugby level. I think the preference would be to groom the next big thing (excuse the pun) such as maybe PAE if they can lure him back.

The major plus for moving Slipper to THP is that we get another world class prop (albeit maybe not a world class TH yet) on the field for 60 minutes.

I think the reality is that one of Slipper, Sio and Smith is going to be moved to TH in the next 12 months.

They ruined Alexander moving him to THP. I'd rather see Allan Allalottoa go back there. Or faith in the new breed

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[Jagman]

Chieka has said he won't be selecting any overseas players for the June tests. So no Kepu for England.


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[BDA]

They ruined Alexander moving him to THP. I'd rather see Allan Allalottoa go back there. Or faith in the new breed

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You know why they moved Alexander to TH? Because we needed a tighthead. If he hadn't have moved to TH our front row would have been even shitter than it was between 2010 and 2013.

Without Alexander at TH from 2010 to 2013 I shudder to think what we would have done.

 

[Tomikin]

You know why they moved Alexander to TH? Because we needed a tighthead. If he hadn't have moved to TH our front row would have been even shitter than it was between 2010 and 2013.

Without Alexander at TH from 2010 to 2013 I shudder to think what we would have done.

Yeah but as a player and the shit he gets.. He moved for the team and gets rubbished for it he was a fantastic LHP.

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[BDA]

true. still its germane to this discussion. There is no point in us having 3 top quality LHPs if we have no quality THP options. I'm sure Cheika has his eye on at least one prospect, but I also assume one of Smith/Slipper/Sio is on the radar to transition over time. I might be completely wrong though

 

[BDA]

Yeah but as a player and the shit he gets.. He moved for the team and gets rubbished for it he was a fantastic LHP.

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Actually I think its fair to say he had his moments at THP too. From memory he had a really strong year at THP for the Wallabies in 2009 (? 2010?) was decent at the 2011 world cup. Unfortunately he had some fairly glaring holes in his technique that he seemingly never addressed.

Still, to this day he remains a decent Super Rugby THP

 

[Gillys_ghost]

i thought Alexanders problems really started once the scrum laws changed and he couldnt seem to adapt. Slipper has played well enough at THP in the past, but other then last year (where he was playing injured) hes been so good for us at LHP i might not want to move him unless there is no choice.

 

[Tomikin]

Actually I think its fair to say he had his moments at THP too. From memory he had a really strong year at THP for the Wallabies in 2009 (? 2010?) was decent at the 2011 world cup. Unfortunately he had some fairly glaring holes in his technique that he seemingly never addressed.

Still, to this day he remains a decent Super Rugby THP

I would say he coped it, from someone who got moved because we had no THP... and as a brumbies fan he was scoring tries and playing LHP better then fatcat, but Robbie D moved him cos he had no one better.. he then played LHP for Brumbies, THP for Wallabies, then got moved to THP for brumbies then when Palmer came along when back to LHP...

Let's not talk at Wallabies level where the THP Slipper, moved to the LHP .. and Alexander had to go back the otherside.. Yes he has a few holes in his game, but packing on nearl 10 Kg's moving to the other side of the scrum, never helped him, we give the guy way to much crap over it.

 

[Tomikin]

i thought Alexanders problems really started once the scrum laws changed and he couldnt seem to adapt. Slipper has played well enough at THP in the past, but other then last year (where he was playing injured) hes been so good for us at LHP i might not want to move him unless there is no choice.

When do you mean ? he struggled (wasn't as good as he had been) when the wallabies pushed him across the scrum.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

i certainly dont know much about Alexander scrum form prior to about 2010 since i was only a casual fan and didnt pay too much attention to the bloke, but i thought he was pretty good 2010-2011 but after the took the hit out of the engagement for the scrum i thought he wasnt as good.

 

[upthereds#!]

Don't see why posters supporting other teams want to shift the Brumbies' LHPs around. TOCC sees Sio as a THP, and Upthereds wants Alan Ala'alatoa moved across. Brumbies have Ruan Smith and Les Leulua’iali’i-Makin as THP prospects behind Ben Alexander. Given the chance during the season, I won't be surprised to see Ruan Smith put his hand up for higher honours this year.

Talakai is also a very good prospect. Not all doom and gloom at all, especially if Ledesma remains part of the Wallabies' setup.

I didn't say move him across, I said I wish he was a THP...ALREADY a thp, not be turned into one.

 

[Brumby Runner]

To those who are writing Ben A off, just look at how the Brumbies' scrum dealt with the Hurricanes last week. As a THP, he is still streets ahead at Super level of the likes of Tilse, Ryan and whomever the Force put there. Probably close with Weeks, and definitely behind Holmes. I still think Talakai and Ruan Smith are our best options for next year and beyond.

One thing is certain, though. Not one of the Tahs' props should be within cooee of the Wallabies.

 

[TOCC]

Lol no one on here is writing off Ben Alexander, Tomikin is saying Alexander unfairly copped it for his time trying to play THP at the Wallabies. Brumbies obviously have a strong Super Rugby scrum, but for Alexander this hasn't translated into strong Test form for him in recent years, whether that be law changes or referees perception.

I worry that apparently our best solution for Wallabies THP for next year are two players who are currently sitting on the bench at their Super Rugby respective teams, Ruan Smith might have potential but he has a long way to go before he is a dominant super rugby THP let alone a dominant test prop, Talakai is another with potential and might be slightly further ahead in development then Ruan Smith, but still only has 10 Super Rugby caps to his name, hardly an experienced campaigner.

 

[RebelYell]

Toby Smith played at THP at the RWC as well, so may well be Cheika's plan to have him as the long-term heir..

 

[Scrubber2050]

No doubt Benny A is done and dusted playing for Australia - same as Robbo.

It shits me that so many people have been so critical of the bloke (as I have been guilty as well) when he has done the BEST he could in whatever position he played and over a long period of time.

Still has some time at Super level.

I'll finish this post with:

Thanks Bemy !!!!!!!!

 

[TSR]

I'm sure he'll console himself with his 60 odd test jerseys that none of us will ever earn.

 

[Gnostic]

I often wonder is the outcomes for Alexander and Baxter would have been much different if we had decent scrum coaching in Australia during their development and importantly in their respective Super sides. Foley was a decent scrum coach at the Tahs and then at the Wallabies for a short time, but performances nose dived when Blades took over and were abysmal with the same players. I think too many times a player is derided for being poor when they have not been given long term consistent coaching to fix their issues with technique. Alexander still has issues wih having his legs too far back at times and collapsing. Baxter right up to his last test bound too close to the arm or on it. These were fixable things and at times they have both dominated the opposition but just I look for changing factors to explain the stark differences in their performances and find only fluid coaching appointments.

There is also no doubt that the ARU/Deans/Blades totally failed to adequately prepare our scrum for the changes to the scrum set up (Blades even admitted as much on the Podcast) and that is unforgivable given that there are still plenty of old head around who could have advised on what scrummaging was like pre "hit" and how to attack it.

 

[Joe Blow]

So happy the rugby season has started!

Baxter and Alexander, and many other mid level test props for the Wallabies have always done the best they can and given their all.
Baxter performed admirably initially but was worked out pretty soon by the other top tier front rows. Alexander and Fat Cat have had their times at the top against the sternest opposition and been pummeled at others.
Benny A just does not appear to have the core strength to cut it as a top level TH whereas Big Al appears to have the perfect build. It's pretty tough to lump all of the blame on the props. At the RWC our 8 scrummed very well, getting low and tight. Ledesma has been amazing. I wonder what he could have done with Baxter?
The future is bright with Sio just resigning and some good young THs coming through along with some pretty good looking second rowers as well. Kepu is going to need to be part of the setup for a while yet.

 

[A mutterer]

So happy the rugby season has started!

It's pretty tough to lump all of the blame on the props. At the RWC our 8 scrummed very well, getting low and tight. Ledesma has been amazing. I wonder what he could have done with Baxter?

yeah, let's not forget the seagulling that came with our scrum for such a long time.

 

[GTPIH]

Chieka has said he won't be selecting any overseas players for the June tests. So no Kepu for England.


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I recall reading somewhere that he may consider Genia as he has hardly played, whereas the reason for overlooking the others is burnout from the long NH season