The Wallabies Thread

[gel]

Gel I think there is too much emphasis placed on what position someone players for their soup team and the implication that that must be their best position. Firstly the soup franchises have 35 players on their rosters and have to shuffle them around when there are injuries etc, and secondly it's a different style of game and each coach has a different game plan.

So when selecting players for a certain position, the national coach is going to shortlist based on what he wants out of them and how they fit into the overall plan.

From FP's backline there I'd argue that DHP is the only one that is truly out of position. Having 3 fullbacks as the back 3 is a bit of overkill, 2 is understandable and for the other wing I'd bench DHP for either Naivalu or Speight, a genuine hard running winger.

i beg to differ.

There is more than enough evidence that consistent positional play leads to instinctive play and confidence.

Successful teams (in any sport) don't shift their players around willy nilly.

 

[Scrubber2050]

It's about time Quade was given the shove. He has consistently shown nothing since 2011 - fucking 6 years ago.

Higgers omission wouldn't worry the bloke one bit. Higgers can't play the style Chek demands. Neither will change. Higgers has enough Wallaby caps !

Magnay selection is just a joke. Talk about cheapening the jersey.

 

[fatprop]

What style is that exactly, and why hasn't it been working?

What it always is, he wants high tempo direct rugby

Poaching will be less important than counter rucks, cleanouts and dominant tackles

He will want a high workrate with a focus to move the ball to space off fast front foot ball

Defence is the issue, I don't understand the decision to play such a passive defensive line in June. But I could speculate that the team wasn't fit enough to play a rush and high tempo'ish attack

While he is coach, I expect the style to continue


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[fatprop]

His last game he actually played almost all the match where the Force flogged the Tahs and Lance outplayed Foley .. how's that for impressions

Yep, they were flogged and unsurprisingly the 10 sitting behind the dominant pack looked better

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[fatprop]

It's about time Quade was given the shove. He has consistently shown nothing since 2011 - fucking 6 years ago.

Higgers omission wouldn't worry the bloke one bit. Higgers can't play the style Chek demands. Neither will change. Higgers has enough Wallaby caps !

Magnay selection is just a joke. Talk about cheapening the jersey.

Magnay isn't cheapening the jersey, like Mason in June he is getting a taste of camp, not a squad pick

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[TOCC]

Yep, they were flogged and unsurprisingly the 10 sitting behind the dominant pack looked better

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Credit where credit deserved mate.. he put in a good performance and outplayed Foley .

The difference between you and I, is that you are looking for excuses to justify his exclusion from the squad, whilst I am looking at the reasons as to why he should have been included.

 

[fatprop]

Credit where credit deserved mate.. he put in a good performance and outplayed Foley .

The difference between you and I, is that you are looking for excuses to justify his exclusion from the squad, whilst I am looking at the reasons as to why he should have been included.

That is not my intention, I generally try to understand why the decision was made, as it has been made and ain't going to change

As to Lance's effort, it was great and I would have been happy to have him there, but he ain't.

So why don't we look at who is and "look forward" to the floggings to come while hoping for some improvement

 

[fatprop]

I hope both Beale & Hunt start

Genia
Foley
DHP. Out of position
Hunt. Out of position
TK
Folau. Out of position
Beale. Out of position

Would be my preference

I'd like the Australian teams to sort their shit out with the wallabies and figure out where the guys are supposed to play. Hunt is wanted at 12? Great, then he's a 12 at the Reds and Duncan immediately goes to the brumbies as a 12. Or vice versa. Folau on the wing? Then that's where he plays for the tahs from now on.

I thought Hunt was excellent at 12 for the Wobs
I don't see a big difference these days between wing and 15, Folau often ends up there as the pendulum of the back 3 rocks

Require the super rugby coaches to play guys in the positions Cheika wants? Yeah that will go down well.

Require Cheika to pick players only in the position their super rugby coach have them play, really?

 

[TOCC]

That is not my intention, I generally try to understand why the decision was made, as it has been made and ain't going to change

As to Lance's effort, it was great and I would have been happy to have him there, but he ain't.

So why don't we look at who is and "look forward" to the floggings to come while hoping for some improvement

So... Dare not criticise Cheikas selections or suggest improves

 

[Ruggo]

Never question the mighty Cheika. He is the Teflon man you know!

 

[Joe Blow]

It seems pretty clear, Higgers wasn't great in June and they have gone for youth. (I still wouldn't have picked Dempsey, but ...... RHP would have been his replacement, not Higgers) It appears that Timani and McMahon will be the 8 options looking at the squad. Neither is crap and both play a much more physical game than Higgers

Even Cooper's most ardent fans would have to admit he hasn't been great this season, hopefully he finds some form playing in the NRC. He needs to be prepared to take contact and square up the attack more often

It appears that Cheika thinks Beale is a better, or at least comparable backup, to an out of form Cooper.

Not having decent back ups is a symptom of having too many foreigners playing 10 for aus rugby sides

I am more confused about having no back up specialist 10 FP. At least one or both of Lance and QC (Quade Cooper) could have, should have, been in the wider squad. Same with Higgers. None of them may have made the final RC squad but they all are deserving of a spot in this wider squad. Coopers runs in June were fine.

McMahon is going offshore although one could argue that Poey is like for like and will slot back in next year. Agree that RHP was worth a look.

 

[KOB1987]

i beg to differ.

There is more than enough evidence that consistent positional play leads to instinctive play and confidence.

Successful teams (in any sport) don't shift their players around willy nilly.

In an ideal world yes. But in soup the MO is to get all the best players on the field at the same time and therefore some accommodation is usually required. The Canes are doing it this week by playing J Barrett at 13.

 

[fatprop]

So. Dare not criticise Cheikas selections or suggest improves

Do whatever you want, but I will try to look forward and guess what he is trying to do and why he picked who he did because I don't see any of the suggested improves really improving the outcome and they won't be there anyway

Frankly I am far more concerned with our hooker options than who is the back up 10.

Moore's form is really concerning, TPN isn't up to playing long minutes despite him learning over time how to pace himself, he needs another quality unit to share the 2 load because we all know TPN's lineout skills diminish when he starts to blow

 

[fatprop]

McMahon is going offshore although one could argue that Poey is like for like and will slot back in next year. Agree that RHP was worth a look.

I thought the rumour was McMahon was in Japan for the season before turning up for the Reds next season

 

[KOB1987]

I am more confused about having no back up specialist 10 FP. At least one or both of Lance and QC (Quade Cooper) could have, should have, been in the wider squad. Same with Higgers. None of them may have made the final RC squad but they all are deserving of a spot in this wider squad. Coopers runs in June were fine.

McMahon is going offshore although one could argue that Poey is like for like and will slot back in next year. Agree that RHP was worth a look.

Don't lose sight that this is just an interim train on squad. No Brumbies are in it either and it clearly has a developmental slant about it. Can anyone clarify if Quade is playing club rugby this weekend? I'm tipping that Cheika has told him to work on a couple of areas of his game and that he will be called up at some point.

 

[Joe Blow]

I'm not sold on Hunt at 12. He did a good job after being thrust into the position in June but our play over those 3 tests was sub standard and our defense not the best.
I reckon KB (Kurtley Beale) will be the long term 12 with Hunt a super sub on the bench. With KB (Kurtley Beale) at 12 it will be easy for him to slot into first receiver or replace Foley if need be.
Without Pocock we have much less of a presence at the breakdown and Fardy may have been a good inclusion for this RC.

Fardy, Hooper, Timani is nicely balanced with McMahon on the bench.

 

[Braveheart81]

Same with Higgers. None of them may have made the final RC squad but they all are deserving of a spot in this wider squad.

I don't really get this. If Cheika didn't think he performed to the necessary level when he played 2 tests in June that he isn't going to be in the Rugby Championship squad then why pick him now?

The Canes are doing it this week by playing J Barrett at 13.

Interestingly, he thinks his best position is 12 and that's where he wants to play but up to now he has played a bunch of positions except there at Super Rugby and test level because he is good and will play wherever he can get an opportunity.

 

[fatprop]

I'm not sold on Hunt at 12. He did a good job after being thrust into the position in June but our play over those 3 tests was sub standard and our defense not the best.
I reckon KB (Kurtley Beale) will be the long term 12 with Hunt a super sub on the bench. With KB (Kurtley Beale) at 12 it will be easy for him to slot into first receiver or replace Foley if need be.
Without Pocock we have much less of a presence at the breakdown and Fardy may have been a good inclusion for this RC.

Fardy, Hooper, Timani is nicely balanced with McMahon on the bench.

But Fardy is gone, so who would be your next choice?

 

[Joe Blow]

But Fardy is gone, so who would be your next choice?

If Timani is at 8 I would go for someone with a lineout presence. Probably RHP although he may not be fit enough for Cheika just yet. I reckon Higgers at 6 with Timani at 8 would also be balanced alongside Hooper.

Hanigan is not there yet. Ditto for Dempsey. Hardwick is really a 7 or bench option.

I would guess he will go

6.McMahon
7.Hooper
8.Timani

Hardwick on the bench.

Our lineout will be compromised. It was excellent in June.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think he'll be included in any training squad the brumbies are available for but will otherwise play NRC with an eye to coming on the end of year tour.

I thought quades form of the bench in the tests would've been enough to keep him there but can see why he was dropped. I can't understand why lance isn't there for at least a wider training squad like this though. If he's going to be called up in the case of injury then use camps like this to make sure he's up to speed with their systems.

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Too much sense there Wilson, and just maybe Lance would show Foley up in contested training, "you know what I mean?".