The Wallabies Thread

[upthereds#!]

I thought Ledesma was just the scrum coach and that Cheika took responsibility for the forwards?

No better!

IMO, a National Head Coach shouldn't coach a specific portfolio. Get the best Forwards, Backs, Skills and Defensive coaches you can get. These guys run the show at the Wallabies but also supervise pathway systems as specialists (like Mick is doing) in conjunction with specific skills consulting coaches who operate under the ARU HPU (contact, scrum, kicking etc), ensuring similiar standards are being adopted and implemented throughout State u20, Aus u20 and Super Rugby level.

 

[cyclopath]

Maybe, but that Rattue article as referenced above made some excellent, objectively justified points. Far more accurate, thoughtful and incisive than most of the utter rubbish that comes from our mainstream rugby media here.

Perhaps on occasion you and others should consider the substance of what a writer puts down before instantly issuing the patronising condemnation and rejection out of hand.

I had read it, actually, but thanks for the condescension anyway.
I don't agree we "need" a Kiwi coach. If for no other reason than the debacle of the last one. I was optimistic about Deans but it turned into a farce and I don't think the general rugby public will swallow another serve of it, so it's an unlikely hypothetical for me. For better or worse I think we will need to find one from Oz. Or several.

 

[TOCC]

Australia invest next to nothing in coaching pathways or development, the area which should prioritied in terms of development sits down the bottom and refeives next to nothing.

If our best players are on central contracts, then why arent the best coaches, much like in New Zeland. Whats the point of having development pathways if we aren't going to use them for coaches and players alike. Too often, former players are parachuted into positions they are under qualified for, and the result is shit coaching on Australian players.

Make them earn their stripes in the Shute Shield/QPR/NRC, then look at promoting them to a Super Rugby team or giving them the reins to the U20s or Super Rugby

 

[cyclopath]

Australia invest next to nothing in coaching pathways or development, the area which should prioritied in terms of development sits down the bottom and refeives next to nothing.

If our best players are on central contracts, then why arent the best coaches, much like in New Zeland. Whats the point of having development pathways if we aren't going to use them for coaches and players alike. Too often, former players are parachuted into positions they are under qualified for, and the result is shit coaching on Australian players.

Make them earn their stripes in the Shute Shield/QPR/NRC, then look at promoting them to a Super Rugby team or giving them the reins to the U20s or Super Rugby

I agree.

 

[RedsHappy]

Australia invest next to nothing in coaching pathways or development, the area which should prioritied in terms of development sits down the bottom and refeives next to nothing.

If our best players are on central contracts, then why arent the best coaches, much like in New Zeland. Whats the point of having development pathways if we aren't going to use them for coaches and players alike. Too often, former players are parachuted into positions they are under qualified for, and the result is shit coaching on Australian players.

Make them earn their stripes in the Shute Shield/QPR/NRC, then look at promoting them to a Super Rugby team or giving them the reins to the U20s or Super Rugby

I think you'd know - I agree.

But surely by now we must all realise - for at least 20 years, the ARU has had absolutely no idea regarding the creation of a system-wide approach to Australian rugby skills development in depth and coaching development or the building of coaching development pathways in depth.

Isn't this fact just screamingly obvious?

The professional era ARU has really solely been a kind of glorified commercialisation, media rights negotiation, and sponsorship development operation for the very elite end of the sport plus an attractive networking opportunity system for (mostly wealthy) rugby old boys and ex-Wallabies.

 

[flat_eric]

"I think everyone was surprised," Larkham said. "I don't think it was necessarily a poor performance. There was great intent from the players going out onto the field but far too many errors."

What planet are these blokes from? No wonder the team is playing at such a low level when you're sprouting this kind of shit around the locker room.

 

[upthereds#!]

My profession is a as a coach. That's what I do. I can tell you right now that you'd never say someone had a good performance if they failed to execute the basic skills and strategy. You could talk to them and say "I saw real intent out there, not doubting the effort etc, BUT it wasn't the best performance as we did execute etc etc a b c.

Good intent doesn't make a good performance, it's a place to start. You can absolutely call that game a poor performance regardless of intent...because they performed poorly by their own standards.

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^^^^
Agree
The real question is why did they perform so badly ?

Subtle things like;

Culture ?
Passion (some play for glory, some for dollars - you work out which)?
Attitude ?
Lack of respect of HC and Assistants ?
Blokes pissed off within the group (re some selections / positions) ?
Captaincy ?

You could write a book on each of the above but I'll just mention the ones I could throw into the hat.

 

[TOCC]

[quote="RedsHappy, post: 964408, member: 2085]
The professional era ARU has really solely been a kind of glorified commercialisation, media rights negotiation, and sponsorship development operation for the very elite end of the sport plus an attractive networking opportunity system for (mostly wealthy) rugby old boys and ex-Wallabies.[/quote]

Unfortunately this sums it up

 

[Derpus]

^^^^^^^^
Agree
The real question is why did they perform so badly ?

Subtle things like;

Culture ?
Passion (some play for glory, some for dollars - you work out which)?
Attitude ?
Lack of respect of HC and Assistants ?
Blokes pissed off within the group (re some selections / positions) ?
Captaincy ?

You could write a book on each of the above but I'll just mention the ones I could throw into the hat.

Playing for money is fine so long as you play to the best of your ability, as you would expect of any professional.

 

[Gnostic]

Playing for money is fine so long as you play to the best of your ability, as you would expect of any professional.

So much more goes into being professional than the end game. That is 5 minutes in the sun compared to the endless toil away from the bright lights ensuring the skills and fitness are there to allow the "best of your ability" to shine at the big moment. As it is I will say with any other Profession.

And IMHO this is the area Australian Rugby has failed miserably at. Those extras that players do or don't do away from the coaches and official time. What the coaches have them doing during official training time is only a small part, and I think we can say its obvious a lot of that is wasted given the quality of the output, but also given the total lack of improvement in base skills of elite players at the very top tier they also fail to do anything to remedy the basic flaws in their skills. Just imagine other professionals not keeping up with they development and improving on their output.

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^^^^
Culture and attitude.

They just keep coming up (well, at least from me anyway)

 

[wamberal]

"I think everyone was surprised," Larkham said. "I don't think it was necessarily a poor performance. There was great intent from the players going out onto the field but far too many errors."

What planet are these blokes from? No wonder the team is playing at such a low level when you're sprouting this kind of shit around the locker room.

Do you know what is being said inside the locker room?

 

[sidelineview]

So much more goes into being professional than the end game. That is 5 minutes in the sun compared to the endless toil away from the bright lights ensuring the skills and fitness are there to allow the "best of your ability" to shine at the big moment. As it is I will say with any other Profession.

And IMHO this is the area Australian Rugby has failed miserably at. Those extras that players do or don't do away from the coaches and official time. What the coaches have them doing during official training time is only a small part, and I think we can say its obvious a lot of that is wasted given the quality of the output, but also given the total lack of improvement in base skills of elite players at the very top tier they also fail to do anything to remedy the basic flaws in their skills. Just imagine other professionals not keeping up with they development and improving on their output.

Good point but it starts at the bottom and continues through the junior and school ranks. The development of skills i mean.
Therefore, developing good coaches is just as important as developing skills for players.
I must be a genius to think of this.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Do you know what is being said inside the locker room?

I can only imagine what the players are thinking re coaches etc

But to be fair the real rub is on the players for a sub standard performance, irrespective of the competency of the Coaches.

No doubt, Hoops will bring them together

 

[dru]

But to be fair the real rub is on the players for a sub standard performance, irrespective of the competency of the Coaches.

Not for me. This one is Cheika and Cheika alone. I can't even coat grey with the same paintbrush.

The HC has chosen a strategy which requires these changes from attack to D. First and foremost was the issue on the weekend as was predicted by quite a few.

 

[fatprop]

Hoiles made an interesting comment on the current Aus talent, he highlight the results over the last 8 odd years of Aus U20s results (about 5th in the world each year) and suggested we are about where that suggests with the Aus side today

 

[wamberal]

Actually, 5th is not too shabby, considering the comparative popularity of the code here and the overwhelming financial strength of the two major competitors for talent.

 

[sidelineview]

Interesting quote from the Wallabies skills coach:

Wallabies skills coach Mick Byrne is asking for patience as he slowly teaches the Wallabies how to catch and pass a ball.
Byrne used to be the ABs coach, and started around 2005, 2 years before *that* 2007 RWC Rainbow Warrior classic between France and NZ.
“If you go back, 2007 wasn’t a flash year for us trying to get things right,” Byrne said, according to ESPN. “But certainly when it clicks into gear, it happens, and when you turn the corner, you turn it pretty quickly.
“The key is perseverance and these boys’ energy to do that has been tremendous.”
The Waratahs were criticised for chatting about how well they’d done in training earlier this year, but Byrne echoes their sentiments.
“What we know, and it’s been no different in any environment I’ve been in, we see the improvement on the training field before it transfers to the game,” he said. “If we not seeing on it the training field, that’s when I get frustrated or start questioning what we are doing. But we are seeing huge improvements there and it’s going to be persistence that will start to transfer it out into the game.”

There's gotta be something seriously wrong with the system of coaching and development of young rugby players in Oz as they progress through the junior and school ranks, if current Wallabies need to be taught to catch and pass and the public is asked to be patient for it to come together.

 

[fatprop]

Actually, 5th is not too shabby, considering the comparative popularity of the code here and the overwhelming financial strength of the two major competitors for talent.

Agreed, it is just our expectations of being continually that top 2 or 3 nation maybe a little bit of an overreach