Derpus
George Gregan (70)
Preeeeeetty sure Wallaby fans won't give a flying fuck if he stays on right after winning a World Cup.
Wallabies 2019 Thread
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Peter Johnson (47)
Possibly. But that could be simply countered by RA with the simple arguments that it took their intervention to "restructure" his coaching team and their initiative to put some additional supports in place (as their instance) to help him get success. Until "their" recent intervention and subsequent introduction of additional supports his standalone record my be a little fragile to leaver off.
dru
Tim Horan (67)
He has not been successful. Pull off a miracle and all before is forgotten?
I grant you his case would improve. Lot's. But it's not starting from a strong position.
It would depend on the strength of the alternatives, if largely cactus, he'd have a good argument.
Joe King
Dave Cowper (27)
Though, I suppose if he won every test this year they would find it difficult to move him on. They would reason that he has finally 'clicked', and the new selection system is doing it's job, or something like that.
Not that it's going to happen, but if the Wallabies won every Test this year, and the RWC, and RA told him to fuck off, do you not think that would look odd?
I personally think win percentages are a bit weird, and quite skewed these days. People jizz their shorts about England, Wales or Ireland winning how ever many on the trot, yet conveniently ignore the fact that they often (not so much Ireland) avoid playing the best team in the world for years on end. And we keep playing them 3 or more times.
I've said it before and I will say it again, people have to get over the idea we are contenders to be #1 in the world. It's a nice dream, but I think the halcyon days of the late 90s and early 00s were something of an aberration and we are more a mid-table team, world rankings wise. Sadly.
And I say this as someone who thinks Cheika has had his go and should probably move on. But I would till think it's bloody weird if he got sacked after winning everything - luckily, not likely to be a hypothetical we all have to cogitate upon in late 2019. We'll be third in the RC at best and go out in pool / quarter at the RWC.
Then we'll hire another Kiwi.
I find winning percentage a good indicator of the national coach. In general the Wallabies play the same teams year on year and it doesn't matter what England, Wales or Ireland are doing because it doesn't compare us to them.
FWIW: Wallabies under Cheika 47.45% after last night. If they win every test left 55.75%
Robbie Deans who was considered a terrible coach and got sacked for his record 58.66%
FWIW: Wallabies under Cheika 47.45% after last night. If they win every test left 55.75%
Robbie Deans who was considered a terrible coach and got sacked for his record 58.66%
Lorenzo
Colin Windon (37)
You can trim off all of the AB tests and he's still only 26-19-2 for 55%. As has been discussed on here to death, the issue many people have with him isn't his teams' performances against NZ, it's his teams' performances against pretty much everyone else.
Which reflects the fact that we are ranked 6th and not 2nd.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
If Cheika was to win the RWC with the cattle he has - been pretty brave call to say he deserves to go. I think some calm heads called on it pretty well but we just don't have the cattle to be much more than mid table in terms of top 10 teams in the world. We need to address why we are in that situation which is for where to for super rugby and other threads to be answered.
But to note I do believe Cheika has his go and time to move on after RWC but equally if he was to produce a miracle and win the thing and he wanted to stay - well be hard to argue against him wanting to stay on if that was the case.
But to note I do believe Cheika has his go and time to move on after RWC but equally if he was to produce a miracle and win the thing and he wanted to stay - well be hard to argue against him wanting to stay on if that was the case.
Lorenzo
Colin Windon (37)
Id be willing to judge the WC on its merits of we won it. If we came out of the gate a completely different side and executed smart rugby on our way to the title, I'd be willing to accept that MC hat finally figured out test footy.
If we stumble our way to a victory, the beneficiaries of some other results falling our way and still playing the hot mess footy we have since 2016, I'd wave goodbye.
If you are prepared to extend based on a WC victory no matter the circumstances, you're basically saying the 3 years in between WCs don't mean anything anymore.
If we stumble our way to a victory, the beneficiaries of some other results falling our way and still playing the hot mess footy we have since 2016, I'd wave goodbye.
If you are prepared to extend based on a WC victory no matter the circumstances, you're basically saying the 3 years in between WCs don't mean anything anymore.
I'm not saying he's good. He isn't. And he will rightly be gone.
I'm also saying the win % metric has to be taken with note of who is actually being played at both ends of the spectrum.
And I'm saying we're not very good.
I also think that we have become psychological basket cases getting belted year-in, year-out by NZ, and to a lesser degree SA.
It's all a bit sad.
TSR
Mark Ella (57)
The saddest part about all of this is that I think we all know we are having a pointless discussion.
Cheika rightly got credit and a decent amount of slack for the Wallabies overachieving at the last World Cup. Those credit points are long gone. If Australia were to win it from here I can see how RA would be considering extending his tenure.
The likelihood of that actually happening though .....
I only got to watch the second half of last nights game. At no point did we look to me like a team on its way up with a well thought out game plan.
Cheika rightly got credit and a decent amount of slack for the Wallabies overachieving at the last World Cup. Those credit points are long gone. If Australia were to win it from here I can see how RA would be considering extending his tenure.
The likelihood of that actually happening though .....
I only got to watch the second half of last nights game. At no point did we look to me like a team on its way up with a well thought out game plan.
Finsbury Girl
Trevor Allan (34)
Anyone whose last name is not Cheika is better than a kiwi.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I agree 100% with Cyclo. The win % metric is way overused and is not the only indicator of coaching performance. A good example of the issue going the other way is the Eddie Jones era post 2003 RWC. Jones coaching and game plan which filtered down in the pro ranks of a more homogenous player body shape, placing a lower importance on the set piece and a very great importance on players meeting metrics in the play by numbers scheme led directly to 10 years of Australian set pieces being annihilated at all pro levels, after he had initial success and a very good win%.
If Jones was being judged on coaching more complete rugby skills and game plan instead of what got some pretty immediate and short term results we would not have seen that decade long decline and tortuous recovery from what became a very low skill base. Likewise Deans' record is judged on that very poor %, but even that doesn't show what a haphazard unorganised system was run under him, with so many games devoid of anything resembling a game plan and coupled with often mystifying selections.
Cheika managed a remarkable feat at RWC 2015 with the Wallabies outperforming, not only in results but in actual play. However the 4 years from that achievement have been well below what could reasonably be expected in terms of actual performance in tactics, skill progression and selections, without even considering win:loss.
That said the pure hypothetical of him winning every test this year was never going to happen, on the carry over form from Super Rugby and last year's tests there was nothing to build on, all aspects of Australian play have been lacking, and my judgement on this was proved right with last night's performance against a Saffa B side.
If Jones was being judged on coaching more complete rugby skills and game plan instead of what got some pretty immediate and short term results we would not have seen that decade long decline and tortuous recovery from what became a very low skill base. Likewise Deans' record is judged on that very poor %, but even that doesn't show what a haphazard unorganised system was run under him, with so many games devoid of anything resembling a game plan and coupled with often mystifying selections.
Cheika managed a remarkable feat at RWC 2015 with the Wallabies outperforming, not only in results but in actual play. However the 4 years from that achievement have been well below what could reasonably be expected in terms of actual performance in tactics, skill progression and selections, without even considering win:loss.
That said the pure hypothetical of him winning every test this year was never going to happen, on the carry over form from Super Rugby and last year's tests there was nothing to build on, all aspects of Australian play have been lacking, and my judgement on this was proved right with last night's performance against a Saffa B side.
Ignoto
John Thornett (49)
Stepping away from the results, I don't think Cheika is at all what you want for a long term national coach. From his blind faith in players who don't or haven't delivered in year, continually using a system that was countered years ago (the Pooper) to an inability to instill a secondary game plan when shit comes up.
Cheika tries to tell the public that he's a big believer in culture, but I think the lack of accountability he and our coaching staff speaks volumes to why they've been unable to show any form of progress.
He is more concerned with complaining about things he isn't able to control rather than focusing on what he and the Wallabies can fix. More hot air was given by him this morning on the Referee where he had this to say about the defence:
Cheika tries to tell the public that he's a big believer in culture, but I think the lack of accountability he and our coaching staff speaks volumes to why they've been unable to show any form of progress.
He is more concerned with complaining about things he isn't able to control rather than focusing on what he and the Wallabies can fix. More hot air was given by him this morning on the Referee where he had this to say about the defence:
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Precisely. On top of being the most unsuccessful coach the Wallabies have ever had, he is also the most unsettling and divisive from a fans point of view ever. If, as Adam84 says above "Be unsuccessful, lose job" then by any measure he should have lost his job three or four years ago, or at least when he was last extended in the job.
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