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Wallabies 2020

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Are there any international coaches who have shown a propensity to chop and change their captain on a frequent basis?
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
That seems like a good time for McReight to get some starts to me. After another full season of Super Rugby and with Hooper coming off a sabbatical.

In expect he'll be given some sort of rest after Japan. At that stage he will have been playing rugby almost non stop for more than a year.

Given that it's a Lions tour year it likely won't be particularly strong opposition for those first 3 tests, so it'll make sense to rest him from at least the first 2, giving McReight/Wright/A.N. Other some time at 7.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
In expect he'll be given some sort of rest after Japan. At that stage he will have been playing rugby almost non stop for more than a year.


The Japanese season starts a month before Super Rugby but then ends in May when the Aussie teams are starting the Trans Tasman comp.
 

Dctarget

Tim Horan (67)
Given that it's a Lions tour year it likely won't be particularly strong opposition for those first 3 tests, so it'll make sense to rest him from at least the first 2, giving McReight/Wright/A.N. Other some time at 7.


I hope we get France, would be immense.
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
The Japanese season starts a month before Super Rugby but then ends in May when the Aussie teams are starting the Trans Tasman comp.

Didn't realize it ended so early, but that is still only a month off at this end. I'd still expect Rennie to rest him to some degree, along with a few of the other established wallabies if we're coming up against Fiji/Japan/Italy/etc.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I have a feeling they're already locked in for NZ. Would be great if we do get them though, but in that case it definitely wouldn't be a weaker side.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_July_rugby_union_tests

I have no idea about the validity of any of it.

According to this we are playing Wales twice and Tonga once.

New Zealand hosting Italy x2 and Fiji
Argentina hosting Scotland x2 and Georgia

France completely missing from that list.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Didn't realize it ended so early, but that is still only a month off at this end. I'd still expect Rennie to rest him to some degree, along with a few of the other established wallabies if we're coming up against Fiji/Japan/Italy/etc.


I would have thought it would come down to what he does during the Trans Tasman comp.

If he sits that out he'd go into Wallabies camp fresh after a month's break.

Anyway, we'll see.

Hooper will probably end up playing a lot less minutes in Japan than he would for the Waratahs.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
First a coaching team needs a good understanding as to who the A team is. Then the coaching team needs to understand what game and strategy best suits that group. Then this must be inculcated through the wider playing group. Followed by a detailed knowledge of what the alternative players bring, how this might work with game play tweaks. And finally, if the player strengths align, and the alternative game play strategy can be harnessed by the coaching team.

Then BR. Then you would be right.

It’s not a hoary chestnut. We’re just not there.

WBs to focus back on their own systems and strengths and double down. For the next test, that’s what I want.

Don't agree. For instance, it was right to start with AAA against the ABs and to bring Tupou in later, but against the Pumas it might be better to swap them to put extra pressure on their defensive structure early on.

It might also be better to beef up the second row and backrow because we all know that is a strength of the Pumas. Those sorts of changes should be obvious and are warranted. Just do it.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Who's talking about frequent? BH you've changed the discussion just to suit your point of view.


I haven't changed the discussion at all.

My post was a reply to Seb V's comment (albeit I didn't quote it). " I don't believe Rennie has many favourites and I doubt he would hesitate to drop even the Captain for poor form (or someone with better form)."

So I'm following on from the premise that Rennie wouldn't hesitate to drop his captain where other coaches might.

I'm asking whether any international coaches have really done that.

By frequent I mean that they have changed captain for a match or two and maybe reverted back to the previous captain or just generally treated the test captain as not being an overly fixed position. It certainly doesn't have to many changes, just excluding situations where the captaincy has been permanently changed (like switching from Elsom to Horwill in 2011).
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_July_rugby_union_tests

I have no idea about the validity of any of it.

According to this we are playing Wales twice and Tonga once.

New Zealand hosting Italy x2 and Fiji
Argentina hosting Scotland x2 and Georgia

France completely missing from that list.

Weird that France would be missing with us, New Zealand and Argentina all booked up. Still plenty of options for change I guess but you'd think they'd want to have some sort of tier 1 opposition booked in already, even if it was subject to change. Perhaps they plan on heading to Japan.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
Sorry, but I disagree. The captaincy of a national team should not be decided on a match by match basis.


I agree. I doubt Hooper would be dropped by one poor game. 3 poor games in a row then he might. But I also doubt that happening.

But I do think if Rennie were facing the Pocock V Hooper dilemma then the Captaincy might be different.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
First a coaching team needs a good understanding as to who the A team is. Then the coaching team needs to understand what game and strategy best suits that group. Then this must be inculcated through the wider playing group. Followed by a detailed knowledge of what the alternative players bring, how this might work with game play tweaks. And finally, if the player strengths align, and the alternative game play strategy can be harnessed by the coaching team.

Then BR. Then you would be right.

It’s not a hoary chestnut. We’re just not there.

WBs to focus back on their own systems and strengths and double down. For the next test, that’s what I want.


I disagee. Sometimes it would be more efficient to look at the opposition first.

Let say they start a 10-12 combo with zero caps and barely a super xv season under their belt. Well you sure as hell know what channel you're going to target. So if the team dynamic and strengths are all out wide, why would you train to spread it out wide, if you know your gunna attack that channel all game? That wouldn't be efficient or logical.

That would be like prioritizing training to kick to the corners all week when you should be prioritizing running it back (dependin on strenghts/weaknesses of the opposition). Now obviously these are pretty extreme examples but you get my point, I don't think there is an order you do things, and I certainly don't think playing to the opposition is last in that order.

I think most team are professional and efficient enough these days to DO BOTH! Focus on themselves and the opposition at the same time.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
I haven't changed the discussion at all.

My post was a reply to Seb V's comment (albeit I didn't quote it). "I don't believe Rennie has many favourites and I doubt he would hesitate to drop even the Captain for poor form (or someone with better form)."

So I'm following on from the premise that Rennie wouldn't hesitate to drop his captain where other coaches might.

I'm asking whether any international coaches have really done that.

By frequent I mean that they have changed captain for a match or two and maybe reverted back to the previous captain or just generally treated the test captain as not being an overly fixed position. It certainly doesn't have to many changes, just excluding situations where the captaincy has been permanently changed (like switching from Elsom to Horwill in 2011).

Yeh my comment was Rennie not hesitating to drop Hooper on poor form. I didn't mean swapping captain every game. I was more leaning to a situation of several poor performances in a row, with some amazing performances by another 7.

Again, doubt it would happen. But I also don't think Hooper's role in team is as secure as it was under Cheika.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
The whole premise of "Hooper won't be dropped he's the Captain" is a bit BS to me. Captains who play shit will be dropped.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
The whole premise of "Hooper won't be dropped he's the Captain" is a bit BS to me. Captains who play shit will be dropped.

He doesn’t though (play shit).

I don’t see the huge issue that some do in resting a captain such as Hooper. Let’s face it though it wont be this weekend.
 
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Viking

Mark Ella (57)
He doesn’t though (play shit).

I don’t see the huge issue that some do in resting a captain such as Hooper. Let’s face it though it wont be this weekend.


I never said he did. So I doubt he will be dropped.

I agree on resting for a game. I also very much doubt it will be this weekend, they have had 2 weeks off already and he is very much needed against a firing Argentina. Who will play 6 is really the only big question mark. And the Hodge V JOC (James O'Connor) dilemma.
 
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