Wallabies squad for Ireland series

[waiopehu oldboy]

NZRU - just take them to the IRB for the international release. Forget playing nice I expect we should be going alone post 2019 in any event so forget playing up to them.

That is not to say I support selecting him, as I have always said playing these games with contracting to allow selection of players because they sign a contract for next year neatly skirts the intent of the eligibility rules. Its just a bit rich to decry the NH nations for failing to release various PI players or encouraging them to "retire" then start pulling this crap.

As posted earlier by Strewthcobber:

"Player availability in circumstances of dual eligibility

"9.38 When a Union enters into a written agreement with a Player that contemplates the Player representing that Union at senior or next Senior Fifteen-A-Side National Representative Team level (whether at fifteen-aside or seven-a-side Rugby), the Union may seek the Player’s written agreement that the Player shall not be available for selection, attendance and/or appearance in a National Representative Team or National Squad of another Union during the term of that written agreement,"

My understanding is that this is what Samu agreed to in re-signing for the Crusaders.

Maybe another option would be that he goes on leave from his Super Rugby commitments (training for & presumably playing in the match in Perth, attending community & sponsor events etc) without pay & asks to be released from his Tasman contract now so they still have time to sign a replacement. Fair compromise?

 

[Dan54]

Every aus Super player is contracted to AR. No signature, no soup.

Lomax didn't want to play for Cheika … Hansen doesn't actually want Samu.

Seems like a case of good old Kiwi tightarse.

That's what it seems to you Kiap, and I sure you have all the facts as to contracts etc, you realise it would be better if you actually told us all you know , then we could all agree! Be quite interesting if you even told us exactly what NZR have asked for and why. Because I buggered if I know.
Can I add do you know how a lot of this could be avoided, why did Aussie let him go to start with? Wasn't it because he wasn't wanted here? I know players do improve with good coaching , but good scouting should surely be noticing young players with ability.
edit:
And too add to it all I just went out of here and read that a proposal has been put forward to AR and it up to them, so I am sure he will be released.https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...osal-to-allow-pete-samu-to-play-for-wallabies

 

[Dan54]

So Brumbies are playing hardball about not playing Pocock etc for this weeks game. Seems they a bit pissed they only team that was asked to do it, think perhaps because there's is Sunday game, seems Cheika and Co didn't think about this when draw was out all those months ago!

 

[Tomikin]

So Brumbies are playing hardball about not playing Pocock etc for this weeks game. Seems they a bit pissed they only team that was asked to do it, think perhaps because there's is Sunday game, seems Cheika and Co didn't think about this when draw was out all those months ago!

They have a 15 for 15 gig trying too get people too the ground..been marketed and they targeted this game..Be pretty pissy if they cant put out there stars..

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

According to stuff.co.nz, quoting The Daily Telegraph, NZR's asking for $50K to release Samu. This just happens to be the maximum NZR would reimburse a Union for a player unavailable to play M10 Cup due to AB commitments so they can sign a replacement or pay an existing WTS player a full salary. Could be coincidence but equally could not.

 

[fatprop]

According to stuff.co.nz, quoting The Daily Telegraph, NZR's asking for $50K to release Samu. This just happens to be the maximum NZR would reimburse a Union for a player unavailable to play M10 Cup due to AB commitments so they can sign a replacement or pay an existing WTS player a full salary. Could be coincidence but equally could not.

OK, so Samu doesn't play for Tasman, the contract is rescinded and they have that money find someone else.

The NZR / M10 correlation doesn't make sense unless Tasman were having to pay Samu

 

[Derpus]

OK, so Samu doesn't play for Tasman, the contract is rescinded and they have that money find someone else.

The NZR / M10 correlation doesn't make sense unless Tasman were having to pay Samu

It's when they start throwing around terms like 'compensation' that things get confused. Why would we need to compensate them when there is no loss. I don't get why NZRU pay the domestic clubs 50k when they select a player for the All Blacks?

It only makes sense if the domestic club are obligated to continue paying the player when he is unavailable for selection. The NZRU would then effectively be covering the costs of that players salary, rather than just paying them directly.

Samu would presumably not be contracted to them at all if 'released'.

Edit: I also don't get why the NZRU would throw up roadblocks of any kind for Aus. rugby. I guess being the best at a sport no one else fucken plays sounds good to them.

 

[Rugby Central]

They have a 15 for 15 gig trying too get people too the ground..been marketed and they targeted this game..Be pretty pissy if they cant put out there stars.

Anyone else notice Chieka's outright lie in the Australian this morning,
"“I think we want to have a look at this weekend’s footy, as well,” said Cheika.
“Some of the positions are very tight. The front-row is extremely tight, the back three and the backrow, are very competitive.
“The locks … I know that (Rory) Arnold won’t be available but (Rob) Simmons has been in a rich vein of form these last few weeks and (Izack) Rodda has been playing excellent footy and Adam (Coleman) has been leading well down in Melbourne, so it’s going to be a really good contest for the first 15 spots.”
If positions are tight and this weekend will determine players why would you ask for players to be rested. It is an outright lie because RA doesn't give a crap about the Brumbies. They should rest them ONLY after RA fund them the cost of 15,000 tickets. This statement by Cheika is a deliberate falsehood that must be called out.

 

[Brumby Runner]

NZRU - just take them to the IRB for the international release. Forget playing nice I expect we should be going alone post 2019 in any event so forget playing up to them.

That is not to say I support selecting him, as I have always said playing these games with contracting to allow selection of players because they sign a contract for next year neatly skirts the intent of the eligibility rules. Its just a bit rich to decry the NH nations for failing to release various PI players or encouraging them to "retire" then start pulling this crap.

It's really not a way around the eligibility rules, just a way to skirt the ARU's own selection criteria.

I don't have an issue with the ARU having to take out insurance for Samu while he plays here, to cover possible injury and maybe even to compensate Tasman/Crusaders for Samu missing games, but it's a bit rich for NZRU to want a payment up front which amounts to essentially a transfer fee of sorts when that system doesn't apply otherwise in Aus or presumably NZ.

I suspect, though, that an agreement will be reached.

 

[Derpus]

^^^^
Lol it's because the three players he wants rested are guaranteed spots in the team. Here's your tinfoil hat.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'll tell you the same thing I told Bernie - Canberra is just too cold this time of year.
.

As Bernie said to Quade, HTFU.

 

[Rock Lobster]

I don't get why we are going to all this trouble for an average player. If he was Zin Zan Brooke I could understand the desperation to get him in our squad but as our kiwi fans have pointed out, he wouldn't be in the Crusaders 23 at full strength.
"Average" may be a touch harsh but don't tell me we don't have 3 or 4 players in Aus Super Rugby teams of at least equal ability who could come off the bench and play the same role in this Ireland series.

If he wants to be a Wallaby then sure, lets see how he goes in a struggling Aus Super Rugby side for a season rather than gift wrapping him a jersey after a few good games with the best team in the comp. Geez I reckon if you slotted ANY Aus Super Rugby player into that Crusaders side their form would look ten times better than it currently is.

 

[Joe Blow]

I’d say take him on the EOYT if he warrants it.

 

[fatprop]

I don't get why we are going to all this trouble for an average player. If he was Zin Zan Brooke I could understand the desperation to get him in our squad but as our kiwi fans have pointed out, he wouldn't be in the Crusaders 23 at full strength.
"Average" may be a touch harsh but don't tell me we don't have 3 or 4 players in Aus Super Rugby teams of at least equal ability who could come off the bench and play the same role in this Ireland series.

If he wants to be a Wallaby then sure, lets see how he goes in a struggling Aus Super Rugby side for a season rather than gift wrapping him a jersey after a few good games with the best team in the comp. Geez I reckon if you slotted ANY Aus Super Rugby player into that Crusaders side their form would look ten times better than it currently is.

So the numerous threads about our issues in the back row are fantasies?

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

It's really not a way around the eligibility rules, just a way to skirt the ARU's own selection criteria.

I don't have an issue with the ARU having to take out insurance for Samu while he plays here, to cover possible injury and maybe even to compensate Tasman/Crusaders for Samu missing games, but it's a bit rich for NZRU to want a payment up front which amounts to essentially a transfer fee of sorts when that system doesn't apply otherwise in Aus or presumably NZ.

I suspect, though, that an agreement will be reached.

Since no-one this side of the ditch dare suggest it, maybe it's a ploy to get him to seek a release from Tasman, thereby freeing up whatever his contract's worth to sign a replacement? Crusaders would still be paying him through June, though, so that would need to be worked through.

Derpus, in order to have a Super Rugby contact you must also either be signed to a Union or have an exemption from NZR (as Taufua & E Dixon have this year). I guess Tasman could wait for Samu to be picked for TRC then sue for breach of contract when he doesn't front for M10 Cup but surely it's better to get it sorted prior to that.

 

[cyclopath]

Anyone else notice Chieka's outright lie in the Australian this morning,
"“I think we want to have a look at this weekend’s footy, as well,” said Cheika.
“Some of the positions are very tight. The front-row is extremely tight, the back three and the backrow, are very competitive.
“The locks … I know that (Rory) Arnold won’t be available but (Rob) Simmons has been in a rich vein of form these last few weeks and (Izack) Rodda has been playing excellent footy and Adam (Coleman) has been leading well down in Melbourne, so it’s going to be a really good contest for the first 15 spots.”
If positions are tight and this weekend will determine players why would you ask for players to be rested. It is an outright lie because RA doesn't give a crap about the Brumbies. They should rest them ONLY after RA fund them the cost of 15,000 tickets. This statement by Cheika is a deliberate falsehood that must be called out.

Is that the hoped, expected or likely crowd? Be a bloody good crowd if they can get it.

 

[Derpus]

Would he not be signed by the ARU?

I admit ignorance in this arena but i do not see how there is loss when he is neither expected to play and is not required to be paid by a domestic club.

Even if they sued for breach of contract, it's not as if they would get 50k. They don't pay salaries in lump sums at the start of a season. Their loss would likely be negligible or even nominal.

 

[Dan54]

It's when they start throwing around terms like 'compensation' that things get confused. Why would we need to compensate them when there is no loss. I don't get why NZRU pay the domestic clubs 50k when they select a player for the All Blacks?

It only makes sense if the domestic club are obligated to continue paying the player when he is unavailable for selection. The NZRU would then effectively be covering the costs of that players salary, rather than just paying them directly.

Samu would presumably not be contracted to them at all if 'released'.

Edit: I also don't get why the NZRU would throw up roadblocks of any kind for Aus. rugby. I guess being the best at a sport no one else fucken plays sounds good to them.

Don't we all discuss here time and time again that players that go to NH and there should be compensation to the teams that brought them through? Remember before he got into NZ system he couldn't get in the Tahs!! now he good enough to be a Wallaby after a few years in NZ, is that because of the training etc he got there? If so maybe payment is fair especially for Tasman who lose him this year and I think did the most work on him. But really I would release him, but I guess all parties have to be considered. I still not sure if I would pick him ahead of Higgers anyway, as I not absolutely convinced he an international standard player. I personally with my living in Aus hat on would prefer he had to be here and playing for a team here to be picked, otherwise it makes AR look like Scotland etc that pick players as soon as they arrive in country.

 

[Rock Lobster]

So the numerous threads about our issues in the back row are fantasies?

No but Samu is hardly the answer to those issues. If he was a six foot six tackle busting machine and a lineout freak, different story but he is not.

 

[Derpus]

Don't we all discuss here time and time again that players that go to NH and there should be compensation to the teams that brought them through? Remember before he got into NZ system he couldn't get in the Tahs!! now he good enough to be a Wallaby after a few years in NZ, is that because of the training etc he got there? If so maybe payment is fair especially for Tasman who lose him this year and I think did the most work on him. But really I would release him, but I guess all parties have to be considered. I still not sure if I would pick him ahead of Higgers anyway, as I not absolutely convinced he an international standard player. I personally with my living in Aus hat on would prefer he had to be here and playing for a team here to be picked, otherwise it makes AR look like Scotland etc that pick players as soon as they arrive in country.

I personally think a transfer system would be good, but it doesn't exist yet so it seems irrelevant.