Wallabies v All Blacks Saturday 26th August at Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin

[Braveheart81]

This was certainly our best performance for some time.

The backrow performed light years ahead of where they were last week with McMahon having an absolute belter, Hooper not having a poor game and Hanigan is building some consistency. I certainly think Hanigan is playing a lot better than he was in June and will remain in the 6 jersey going forward.

Having Coleman back will be huge as he has become a real leader of our tight 5. Pleasingly in his absence, Rory Arnold really stepped up and Rodda was good off the bench. Simmons did his job.

Moore was better than last week but we were getting crushed in the scrum with him starting. TPN surely has to start and Cheika probably needs to take a punt on Uelese or hope that Latu is healthy again and has improved his fitness.

The simplified defensive structure was hugely better and Foley and Beale really stood up in defence which was important. Clearly we are better backing our players to make their tackles in the simplest way possible rather than trying to have a convoluted defensive structure which tries to avoid certain players having to make tackles.

All in all, the attitude across the park from our players was spot on. They gave it their all and whilst we probably should have won that game, we went bloody close which is a lot better than we have been recently.

The challenge now is to repeat it and beat the Springboks in Perth in a couple of weeks time.

 

[tragic]

It's kind of like how Kiwis all over Reddit are saying that Retallick's incident didn't deserve a penalty, let alone a citing or a card. It's not because they don't have the insight that you do, tragic, and it's not because they're being willfully ignorant despite knowing better, it's simply because their thought process isn't entirely objective because it's clouded by thousands of variables, both conscious and unconscious.

That's because they're kiwis and see the incident with a national slant
Which is exactly the provincialism point I was making.
Some are able to look through that, others aren't.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah and no ones put their hand up with their "assessment" and taken note that Foley threw 2 terrible cut out passes that were intercepted and would both have been instant tries if it wasn't for extremely lucky timing with ABs infringing both times.(let me be clear, they were not passes under advantage)
Yet someone posts how Foley misses only 1 of 14 tackles and the typicals jump on that like a Halo...

Are you kidding?

Both of those were thrown wide because we did have advantage so it was worth trying a hail mary play to try and make a break.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Foley this, Foley that. He probably is our best kicker but FFS surely we can get one of the 15 on the park to kick better than that.

Fuck we have a kicking coach, don't we. Well if we do then he should be gone. Maybe the kicker should not practice anything other than kicking. It is such an crucial part of winning a rugby match.

 

[Derpus]

This was certainly our best performance for some time.

The backrow performed light years ahead of where they were last week with McMahon having an absolute belter, Hooper not having a poor game and Hanigan is building some consistency. I certainly think Hanigan is playing a lot better than he was in June and will remain in the 6 jersey going forward.

Having Coleman back will be huge as he has become a real leader of our tight 5. Pleasingly in his absence, Rory Arnold really stepped up and Rodda was good off the bench. Simmons did his job.

Moore was better than last week but we were getting crushed in the scrum with him starting. TPN surely has to start and Cheika probably needs to take a punt on Uelese or hope that Latu is healthy again and has improved his fitness.

The simplified defensive structure was hugely better and Foley and Beale really stood up in defence which was important. Clearly we are better backing our players to make their tackles in the simplest way possible rather than trying to have a convoluted defensive structure which tries to avoid certain players having to make tackles.

All in all, the attitude across the park from our players was spot on. They gave it their all and whilst we probably should have won that game, we went bloody close which is a lot better than we have been recently.

The challenge now is to repeat it and beat the Springboks in Perth in a couple of weeks time.

Foley may have saved us from seeing a reversion to the mixing and matching by nutting up in defense.

 

[Up the Guts]

Putting aside his play around the park the inclusion of Hanigan has improved our lineout. When we played in Wellington last year we were winning our own ball as regularly as you'd expect an international team to win one against the throw. I remember a lot of complaints of 'how can we spend 4 weeks in camp and not win a lineout?' Haven't seen the stats but don't recall the ABs stealing our ball once even with Taf on whose lineout skills are probably his weak point. Noticeable improvement from last year and a tick for Cheika, the coaching team and the players.

 

[tragic]

Look we get it, he's not the best 10 kicking around the world. Problem is, he's by far the best Australian 10 kicking round and so we are stuck with him. We don't even have any teenage prodigy's coming through. Our shortage of competent 10s is almost an emergency situation.

From my perspective the issue is there is no attempt to look at alternatives.
There is clearly some deficiencies in his game that are not improving.
Beale is a much better 12 than he was a few years ago. Could he show the same improvement at 10?
How would QC (Quade Cooper) or JL play now they are over their injuries?
You may be right - they may all be worse.
But we should at least have someone in the squad being given the opportunity to train the house down and provide some competition for places.
And provide injury backup if nothing else.

 

[Joe Blow]

Did we actually throw to Hanigan once?

 

[fatprop]

Putting aside his play around the park the inclusion of Hanigan has improved our lineout. When we played in Wellington last year we were winning our own ball as regularly as you'd expect an international team to win one against the throw. I remember a lot of complaints of 'how can we spend 4 weeks in camp and not win a lineout?' Haven't seen the stats but don't recall the ABs stealing our ball once even with Taf on whose lineout skills are probably his weak point. Noticeable improvement from last year and a tick for Cheika, the coaching team and the players.

They also have sped up the lineout process, last year we gave teams an age to work out where it was going. This year, they walk in and throw imediately

 

[Braveheart81]

Putting aside his play around the park the inclusion of Hanigan has improved our lineout. When we played in Wellington last year we were winning our own ball as regularly as you'd expect an international team to win one against the throw. I remember a lot of complaints of 'how can we spend 4 weeks in camp and not win a lineout?' Haven't seen the stats but don't recall the ABs stealing our ball once even with Taf on whose lineout skills are probably his weak point. Noticeable improvement from last year and a tick for Cheika, the coaching team and the players.

We didn't lose a lineout in the two Bledisloe tests but it's worth noting we only had 5 throws in each game so it is a very small sample size.

You would expect us to have more lineout throws in the next few games as both the Springboks and Pumas are likely to kick into touch more often (on the weekend Pumas had 14 lineouts, Springboks 18).

 

[Braveheart81]

Did we actually throw to Hanigan once?

No. We threw 2 to Arnold and 3 to Rodda.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Truly remarkable.
The big question is how can a side change that much in a week when they had 4 weeks to prepare for the first game?
Answer that question and we will be some way to solving the puzzle.

Simple to me I S

ATTITUDE

 

[Up the Guts]

Did we actually throw to Hanigan once?

I overlooked that fact. However, having the extra option is at least beneficial to the extent it creates some doubt in the opposition's mind.

 

[Joe Blow]

No. We threw 2 to Arnold and 3 to Rodda.

Wow....only 5 lineouts! A lot of ball in play then and the fitness of both sides really tested.

 

[Up the Guts]

We didn't lose a lineout in the two Bledisloe tests but it's worth noting we only had 5 throws in each game so it is a very small sample size.

You would expect us to have more lineout throws in the next few games as both the Springboks and Pumas are likely to kick into touch more often (on the weekend Pumas had 14 lineouts, Springboks 18).

Good point, seems I let my optimism get ahead of the actual statistics. Still 5/5 is better than 4/5 and if our lineout stands up again against the Springboks then we might be able to more reliably conclude we've improved.

 

[Braveheart81]

Good point, seems I let my optimism get ahead of the actual statistics. Still 5/5 is better than 4/5 and if our lineout stands up again against the Springboks then we might be able to more reliably conclude we've improved.

Without a doubt it is a substantial improvement on where we've been in the past.

Whilst the sample size is low, the quality of ball was pretty good so hopefully from that we can take some positives that we can produce good stats with a lot more throws as well.

 

[Interestedoz1]

So after reading many, many comments from fans (on many sites) it seems many people are happy to lose to the AB's - provided it is not by too much (like Bledisloe 1).

Do posters here think this helps or hinders us in progressing forward?

Be interested in thoughts! (particularly in the shadow of 15 years of failed attempts to re-capture the Bledisloe).

 

[Braveheart81]

So after reading many, many comments from fans (on many sites) it seems many people are happy to lose to the AB's - provided it is not by too much (like Bledisloe 1).

Do posters here think this helps or hinders us in progressing forward?

Be interested in thoughts! (particularly in the shadow of 15 years of failed attempts to re-capture the Bledisloe).

I don't think anyone is happy about losing but our performance on Saturday night was a huge improvement on the week before.

I don't think one improved loss really has any impact on future Bledisloe Cup games. Hopefully it is a step in the right direction for our next test in a fortnight though.

 

[chasmac]

First of all, I didn't actually sit and watch the whole game.
Having said that, I have a question regarding Foley's defense.
In the final try Scott Barrett makes a pass to Kieran Reid who goes through a hole then passes to TJ Perenara.
It seemed to me that the defender on Reid was Foley and it was Foley who needed to increase his line speed and move to his right better in order to close the hole that was created in behind Beale. In this instance is Foley credited with a missed tackle? From what I have read it appears that punters are pointing at Beale for shooting out in defense. Foley didn't even lay a finger on Reid and simply slipped over and was out of the play.
Obviously there was a (lack of) communication issue between Beale and Foley in this instance. Can this be seen as a failure in the defensive system we used on the night or an individual skills failure or that we were simply outplayed in this moment?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So after reading many, many comments from fans (on many sites) it seems many people are happy to lose to the AB's - provided it is not by too much (like Bledisloe 1).

Do posters here think this helps or hinders us in progressing forward?

Be interested in thoughts! (particularly in the shadow of 15 years of failed attempts to re-capture the Bledisloe).

I think it depends on how we play against them - and others - in the future.
If we lose our way against either SA or Argentina then its a hollow result.
If we play like headless chooks in Brisbane against the darkness then we have made no progress.
I don't think the scoreline matters at the moment - we just need to stop having to relearn the realities of rugby.