Wallabies v England in Melbourne, 18 June

[Dave Beat]

Yeah we seem to be lacking that line bending sledgehammer in the pack, which worries me.

That's what I say as well, especially in that 9 / 10 channel that gets us going forward. The Poms mounted pressure on Phipps and Foley and when we didnt get that go forward we struggled.

 

[galumay]

Well I cant see the logic of the selection changes, Carter is an odd choice given has such poor discipline, Macmahon seems to struggle at test level, and dropping Sio entirely is odd.

 

[Ulrich]

We looked at our best last week when we could increase the pace of the game, I fail to see the logic of suggesting players who don't work within that model.

We will never beat England going up the middle, we need movement and pace to get the mismatches

You won't beat them unless you win the forward battle. That doesn't necessarily mean scrums, although the two mostly go hand-in-hand. If your forwards dominate you'll run England to shreds.

That's the fact of the matter and the reason the English want to dominate this facet and slow the game down so they can use their speed on defense and size to create pressure and force mistakes. EJ (Eddie Jones) and JW are nearly one and the same. EJ (Eddie Jones) just has a smarter mouth about him.

Once your forwards dominate in such a fashion that your backs can express themselves pretty much in any way they want is when you know you have the advantage. All the better when you have bigger backs to drive over their opposing number when there are no alternatives available.

Rugby is and always will be a simple game.

For the record, the next World cup is to be won either by NZ, England or Aus. I have reasons for all of them to win, but I'll refrain from listing them at this early stage.

 

[Slim 293]

Sio has been dropped from the 23-man squad altogether, paying the price for giving away a yellow card for scrum infringements in the first Test.

​Cheika indicated the Brumbies loosehead was​ left out to ensure he would not be targeted again by the referee.

“Obviously when your prop goes to the sin bin there is some type of perception about what he is doing​,” Cheika said.

“​Even though he’d only given away one penalty. I want to make sure there is no perception here at all. We are here to scrum straight and hard.​”​

As I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sio back in the team for the last test............

 

[Ulrich]

As I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sio back in the team for the last test....

Psychological ploy really to let the world (therefore refs too) know the English are not scrumming straight.

It's all about the arts though.

Nobody used to complain back in the day when Ben Alexander deliberately collapsed scrums. Using any technical and sleight advantage you can is part of test match rugby. Sio was not good enough.

 

[Scoey]

If you look at the general playing attributes of Hooper, he's a hybrid 7/8 (in fact if he was 4-6 inches taller he'd be an ideal 8), and similarly Fardy is a hybrid 6/8. This enables Cheika to select a player in the mould of a 6/7 for the 3rd back rower, both Pocock and McMahon fit this mould. I'm hoping we don't get to find out, but I'm sure that an injury to either Hooper or Fardy would lead to a different selection at #8.

I've never been a fan of hybrids in any facet of life - particularly on a Rugby pitch. Call me old school, but I like my tools built for a specific purpose and to do it well. When you start trying to make things that do a few things then typically they will be adequate at all of those things at best - but not excellent at anything. Of course there is an exception to every rule and one of those guys you mention may well be it.
The thought of having 3 hybrids as you describe them in the back row makes me feel kinda ill though.

 

[KOB1987]

I've never been a fan of hybrids in any facet of life - particularly on a Rugby pitch. Call me old school, but I like my tools built for a specific purpose and to do it well. When you start trying to make things that do a few things then typically they will be adequate at all of those things at best - but not excellent at anything. Of course there is an exception to every rule and one of those guys you mention may well be it.
The thought of having 3 hybrids as you describe them in the back row makes me feel kinda ill though.

I think in general you are right however you could argue that loose forwards can be an exception to the rule. As long as there is balance across their skill sets and all the boxes are ticked then it will work. Purely because of their job description loosies need a diversified skill set. Jot down a list of all the attributes you want your 6/7/8 to have combined, tell me what's missing from this combination?

 

[Viking]

I think in general you are right however you could argue that loose forwards can be an exception to the rule. As long as there is balance across their skill sets and all the boxes are ticked then it will work. Purely because of their job description loosies need a diversified skill set. Jot down a list of all the attributes you want your 6/7/8 to have combined, tell me what's missing from this combination?

A block-busting ball runner.

 

[fatprop]

You won't beat them unless you win the forward battle. That doesn't necessarily mean scrums, although the two mostly go hand-in-hand. If your forwards dominate you'll run England to shreds.

That's the fact of the matter and the reason the English want to dominate this facet and slow the game down so they can use their speed on defense and size to create pressure and force mistakes. EJ (Eddie Jones) and JW are nearly one and the same. EJ (Eddie Jones) just has a smarter mouth about him.

Once your forwards dominate in such a fashion that your backs can express themselves pretty much in any way they want is when you know you have the advantage. All the better when you have bigger backs to drive over their opposing number when there are no alternatives available.

Rugby is and always will be a simple game.

For the record, the next World cup is to be won either by NZ, England or Aus. I have reasons for all of them to win, but I'll refrain from listing them at this early stage.

But there are many different ways to win that forward battle

 

[Viking]

I cant believe this is Slippers 76th cap. And I still don't think he's peaked as a player yet. Well done to him.

 

[Ulrich]

But there are many different ways to win that forward battle

Which is what I alluded to, by mentioning it's not about scrums.

 

[Scoey]

I think in general you are right however you could argue that loose forwards can be an exception to the rule. As long as there is balance across their skill sets and all the boxes are ticked then it will work. Purely because of their job description loosies need a diversified skill set. Jot down a list of all the attributes you want your 6/7/8 to have combined, tell me what's missing from this combination?

Ah you could well be right. Seb makes a good point though. My post wasn't a criticism of that back row per se, but more about my reaction when you started breaking it down like you did. It made me think, we don't really have any specialists in our backrow. They could go well and if McMahon can carry effectively and consistently get over the gain line then there's no reason that they can't but it just remains to be seen.

 

[Slim 293]

Nobody used to complain back in the day when Ben Alexander deliberately collapsed scrums.

Nobody?

 

[Braveheart81]

I think that if we fix our discipline we'll win this one.

We were surprisingly fluent in our backline play for our first test of the year but our discipline and composure let us down badly.

 

[Tip]

I cant believe this is Slippers 76th cap. And I still don't think he's peaked as a player yet. Well done to him.

James Slipper is just 2 years older than Sio! 27 is still so young (for a prop anyway)
I said it last year that Slipper will finish his career as the most capped international player ever.

James Slipper will be 30 at the next WC, and have just turned 34 come 2024.

He'll hit 100 test caps by the Spring tour next year.. and it'll still be 2 years till the WC. He's going to double that cap total with ease.

Frighteningly enough, Props don't "peak" until their early 30's.

Interestingly, Hooper has 23 less caps and is 2 years younger. Though I doubt Hooper will have Slippers durability as he gets older.

 

[fatprop]

One of my concerns is Lilo's work against a rush defense

We need to stay flat and trust the systems, not get deeper and deeper

 

[Scrubber2050]

As I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sio back in the team for the last test....

Slipper deserves the starting spot.

Trouble for Sio is that WHEN we win on Saturday and if Smith does OK off the bench, Coaches rarely change a winning combination.

Hopefully Sio is not "mind fucked" from last week. It (the dicking) happens to all props to varying degrees throughout their careers so he just needs to knuckle down, accept the criticism and work harder on that aspect of his game. Time and experience are great friends.

I reckon Sio will have to work very hard to get back in the 23.Having said that I was surprised he just wasn't given a bench spot.

Big big surprise to me was the non selection of Simmons. He has been the premier lock for a number of years at this level and to be dropped out of the 23 was a shock. Trouble for him is that there are plenty of locks putting their hands up.

McMahon will do fine. He won't die wondering.

Hooper needs to actually play like a 7 this week, tighter and on the ball.

 

[Braveheart81]

Big big surprise to me was the non selection of Simmons. He has been the premier lock for a number of years at this level and to be dropped out of the 23 was a shock. Trouble for him is that there are plenty of locks putting their hands up.

Simmons didn't overcome his injury. He hasn't been dropped.

You can guarantee he would have been selected if he'd passed fit.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Simmons didn't overcome his injury. He hasn't been dropped.

You can guarantee he would have been selected if he'd passed fit.

Is that right ?????????

 

[KOB1987]

A block-busting ball runner.

Yes but is there one of those to choose from? I've never watched Houston play but possibly him, regardless he's not in the squad, and we lose mobility. Balance!