Wallabies v England in Melbourne, 18 June

[Viking]

Suppose we will see his metres this week as opposed to Pocock's metres last week (with the same game time)

Then we can continue to discuss - one of us will remind remind the other to eat some humble pie

Are you up for it ????

I'm up for it. Always happy to be proven wrong Scrubber. Just remember you said "far far superior" so he better double Poey's runs metres.

Really? I think his running has generally been quite strong in most of his appearances.

For a smaller (heh*) guy, he's got an amazing amount of directed power.

*very few of these guys are small really - just he appears a bit smaller than others.

Yes he is strong for his size. He will win the collision battle with a player the same size as him 9 times out of 10. But there is only so much intensity you can have before physics catches up with you. I don't see him running into any of the pommy forwards without them holding him up or going for a turnover, to put things in perspective Vunipola has 25kgs on him and Vunipola couldn't even dominate run metres against our guys.

He has the right attitude, the wrong body.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Houston wouldn't be in the top 5 or 6 8s running around the UK.

NH form is nice but without some previous Aus evidence I think they need do stuff in super rugby first before real Wob call up.

We also have McCaffrey & Grey starting at 8 in the NH, neither could get a start in Super rugby

Neither McCaffery nor Grey are likely to be as strong as Houston and certainly don't look to be on Cheika's radar. As far as NH form is concerned, I note that both Mumm and Horwill have been returned to Wallaby status without much or any recent Super form to support their selections. I don't see Houston being in a much different boat. Certainly the former two had previous Wallaby form but the consensus was that Mumm wasn't playing at test level anyway and Horwill was over the hill before they both went off the the north.

 

[ACT Crusader]

I'm not one to get hung up about weight/height but isn't McMahon bigger than Hooper?

It will be interesting if he can use his strengths - quickness, mobility, etc to his advantage.

 

[BarneySF]

I'm not one to get hung up about weight/height but isn't McMahon bigger than Hooper?

It will be interesting if he can use his strengths - quickness, mobility, etc to his advantage.

I think the stats has Pocock about 12-15 kg north of McMahon. The latter would appear more mobile for sure though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fatprop]

Neither McCaffery nor Grey are likely to be as strong as Houston and certainly don't look to be on Cheika's radar. As far as NH form is concerned, I note that both Mumm and Horwill have been returned to Wallaby status without much or any recent Super form to support their selections. I don't see Houston being in a much different boat. Certainly the former two had previous Wallaby form but the consensus was that Mumm wasn't playing at test level anyway and Horwill was over the hill before they both went off the the north.

you aren't really comparing apples with apples, both Mumm (near 40 tests & 100 Super games) and Horwill (near 60 caps and over 100 Super games) had previous runs on the table (and are both "leaders"), whereas Houston struggled to get a game in Super rugby for the Tahs and then did just OK at the Reds for 40 odd games, Leroy may or may not do OK on his return, let's see

 

[Brumby Runner]

you aren't really comparing apples with apples, both Mumm (near 40 tests & 100 Super games) and Horwill (near 60 caps and over 100 Super games) had previous runs on the table, whereas Houston struggled to get a game in Super rugby for the Tahs and then did just OK at the Reds for 40 odd games, Leroy may or may not do OK on his return, let's see

Yep - I'm prepared to see how he goes at Super Rugby level. My point was essentially that Cheika had shown interest (apparently particular interest) and had included him in the initial test squad. In my view, if he has shown enough to interest the coach, he possibly could offer more from his aggressive style than the other options for No 8 atm. As I said before, if the Wallabies don't win this test, I would expect, or at least won't be surprised, if Houston is one of a couple of new faces to come into the third test (looking towards the 2019 RWC).

 

[Groucho]

Why was he defending out on the wing then?

That's how our defensive system works. One playmaker defends deepish on the short side wing to help manage contestible kicks and provide support at the back if required. One of the reasons Horne gets picked is his added starch in the line defending at 12.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Yep - I'm prepared to see how he goes at Super Rugby level. My point was essentially that Cheika had shown interest (apparently particular interest) and had included him in the initial test squad. In my view, if he has shown enough to interest the coach, he possibly could offer more from his aggressive style than the other options for No 8 atm. As I said before, if the Wallabies don't win this test, I would expect, or at least won't be surprised, if Houston is one of a couple of new faces to come into the third test (looking towards the 2019 RWC).

I'd agree with "new" players if we had won games 1 and 2.

Now I just wanna smoke 'en in Games 2 and 3. To do that we must put our best proven players on the paddock

 

[Scrubber2050]

I'm up for it. Always happy to be proven wrong Scrubber. Just remember you said "far far superior" so he better double Poey's runs metres.




Yes he is strong for his size. He will win the collision battle with a player the same size as him 9 times out of 10. But there is only so much intensity you can have before physics catches up with you. I don't see him running into any of the pommy forwards without them holding him up or going for a turnover, to put things in perspective Vunipola has 25kgs on him and Vunipola couldn't even dominate run metres against our guys.

He has the right attitude, the wrong body.

Double is too much. Pocock is a monster and Sean just a little lightweight young'un.
Therefore 1 metre more is sufficient.
Talk more on Monday !

 

[USARugger]

I doubt we will see Houston. His NH form earned him a shot in the training squad but he didn't even make it passed the first cull.

Despite offing a totally different skill-set to the other 8's, like you mentioned, and this gave him a significant point of difference, BUT he still didn't make it passed the first cull.

He obviously didn't show enough at training and doesn't deserve a shot. I have faith Cheika wouldn't have dropped a player of his skill-set without good reason.

He will have to prove himself in super rugby now. Unless he forces his way in through injuries.

He had a few days to learn the Wallabies structures, calls, etc up against players who have been in that system for literally years.

Cheiks wanted to get a good look at him in person I'm sure and had good reason to lure him home anyway (our depth at 8 is shit).

Sorry, but anyone who expected a guy completely foreign to the way the Wallabies play to slot in over guys who have been doing it for years with a week of training.. well, they're a bit of a lunatic.

Cheika seems to be operating with one eye on the future right now and I'd be pretty surprised myself if he had any intentions of playing Leeroy on this tour outside of us having clinched the series 2-0 or an onslaught of injuries in our back row.

 

[Groucho]

The thing about McMahon is that he's just starting out. He'll get better, and probably bigger. He's 100kg now and could easily end up at 105. There have been plenty of highly effective sixes and eights at 105kg, and I bet that McMahon will play bigger than his size at that weight as well.

Thre's no reason why his Supe form shouldn't translate to tests. It's the same players. Just better organized defences. And that has nothing to do with body size.

 

[Viking]

He had a few days to learn the Wallabies structures, calls, etc up against players who have been in that system for literally years.

Cheiks wanted to get a good look at him in person I'm sure and had good reason to lure him home anyway (our depth at 8 is shit).

Sorry, but anyone who expected a guy completely foreign to the way the Wallabies play to slot in over guys who have been doing it for years with a week of training.. well, they're a bit of a lunatic.

Cheika seems to be operating with one eye on the future right now and I'd be pretty surprised myself if he had any intentions of playing Leeroy on this tour outside of us having clinched the series 2-0 or an onslaught of injuries in our back row.

Interesting assessment. I thought he was added to the squad quite early. I hope your right, I really am quite impressed by his skillset - reminds me a lot like Kefu.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think McMahon is going to be a super player for the Wallabies over the years. He's got so much mongrel and desire in him that I can see him making more and more impact as his body matures. I'm a little worried about this week, but not in the longer term.

 

[Groucho]

Conventional wisdom would have no place in tests for Hooper or McMahon. Neither is as strong over the ball as Pocock (who is?) but now people are saying they're not strong enough over the ball to play seven at all. And neither is considered heavy enough for a conventional six or eight.

6.5s and 7.5s are the future. And if your main fetcher or your main strike runner is a front-rower or lock then so be it. It's a natural progression from having increasingly athletic tight five forwards. Purists will turn in their graves, but that's what graves are for.

 

[boyo]

Nobody?

John Eales?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think so long as we're fulfilling the core skills across the back row of fetching, hard hitting defence/clean out, ball running, linking and lineout catching that it doesn't matter so much who wears which jersey. As Groucho said, the modern tight forward provides more than set piece and mauling capabilities now as well and should be expected to be nearly as athletic as the back rowers.

 

[Merrow]

It'll be the same mantra as last week: speed out wide, tire them out, then bring on a couple of big boppers at the end.

Expecting a 6-2 bench with TPN, Toby, Holmes, Horwill, Mumm, Palu, Frisby, Lilo

Cheika quoted in FoxSports article saying he would have a 5-3 bench. I'm guessing Palu will get the flick.

 

[Braveheart81]

Cheika quoted in FoxSports article saying he would have a 5-3 bench. I'm guessing Palu will get the flick.

I guess it depends whether Mumm/Fardy is the reserve number 8 or whether he wants someone who is more of a specialist there.

Seems like little chance Gill can be on the bench with 5 forwards.

 

[Merrow]

I guess it depends whether Mumm/Fardy is the reserve number 8 or whether he wants someone who is more of a specialist there.

Seems like little chance Gill can be on the bench with 5 forwards.

True.

I forgot about Gill being in the mix as well.

 

[Pfitzy]

Cheika quoted in FoxSports article saying he would have a 5-3 bench. I'm guessing Palu will get the flick.