Wallabies v England in Melbourne, 18 June

[Ulrich]

I wonder what Martin Johnson is saying now. Didn't he say something along the lines of "England have not achieved anything until they have won against one of the Southern powers"?

Eddie Jones' record still 100%.

 

[tragic]

Any of the props out there know what was happening in the scrums. I haven't watched the replay and don't intend to but it seemed like slipper was struggling to stay up as well. Right from the engagement when Cole was square it seemed that slipper was rotated. Like Sio he then struggled at times to stay up. But it didn't seem to be preceded by Cole hinging like last week, at least to first impressions in real time.

 

[Mr Doug]

And that's the reason why Union is less and less popular everyday in OZ. The Wallabies losing another big game in a sold out stadium

Correction; "In a sub-standard stadium"! MHCS, Rugby is not soccer, Rugby is not AFL, Rugby is not League. The eight blokes up front require a stable base upon which to perform their 'craft'!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

A classic moment in club rugby!

I think the "own try" in the NRC 1.0 trumps that.

 

[Mr Doug]

Phipps and Foley - utterly terrible. Sure Foley can run, but that is literally all he can do. He should never ever try and kick the ball, or pass it. He was terrible. Phipps sloppy passing, I never noticed how bad it actually was until tonight
Fardy - too many errors.
Kuridrani, Carter, McMahon, Horne, - Forgot they were even on the field.

Seb V, by way of comparison, could you remind us of your win/loss ratio when you were a Wallaby?!!

 

[Mr Doug]

I don't think I've seen a worse performance from an Australian team ever

Muzza, FYI, it's called "short term memory loss"!

 

[fatprop]

Well said Froggy. Cheika can coach and the majority of these blokes can play. We played dumb footy and we were outcoached last night but there is enough good in the Wallaby setup to persist I think.

I thought we were just outplayed, England just soaked up everything we threw at them., played the ref so well and slowed our ball continually.

They made Phipps's life a misery and the forwards simple didn't react effectively enough. As Cheika said at the press conference they drifted off Foley so Foley ran more but the support work didn't react to leverage any possible half breaks

What I think we are missing is speed and work rate



Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

 

[the sabanator]

Any of the props out there know what was happening in the scrums. I haven't watched the replay and don't intend to but it seemed like slipper was struggling to stay up as well. Right from the engagement when Cole was square it seemed that slipper was rotated. Like Sio he then struggled at times to stay up. But it didn't seem to be preceded by Cole hinging like last week, at least to first impressions in real time.

Cole takes a shorter bind on Slipper so he's folding him in from the start. Slipper is in a weak position and already on the way down. When the ball goes in and the push comes on he folds like card table.

It's lucky the ground was falling apart because that seemed to stop Jubes from penalising Slipper at least 3 or 4 times.

 

[tragic]

Cole takes a shorter bind on Slipper so he's folding him in from the start. Slipper is in a weak position and already on the way down. When the ball goes in and the push comes on he folds like card table.

It's lucky the ground was falling apart because that seemed to stop Jubes from penalising Slipper at least 3 or 4 times.

Thanks - it did look like the bind was leaving him in an awkward position right from the start. Slipper and Sio are quality props. Why doesn't that happen all the time. How can they counter it. Our TH were never able to put their LH under the same pressure. When we dominated them in the RWC it was by out shoving them, not by making them fold.

 

[ForceFan]

For those who are interested the Ruck Involvements data from the Melbourne Test.

Remember:
1. Early means 1st or 2nd of player’s team AFTER the ball carrier has been tackled and brought to ground.
2. Impact means active engagement: strong physical contact, changed shape of ruck, clean-out, protecting ball etc. (more than hand on someone’s bum or arriving after the hard work has been done). Yes it’s subjective - but as I collect all data at least it’s consistent.
3. Impact DOES NOT equate to Effectiveness. I’ve concluded that coming up with an effectiveness measure is just too hard in the time that I have available – but open to suggestions.

Involvements over time

Some additional statistics:

Possession: Wallabies 71%; England 29%
Rucks: Wallabies 159; England 51
Ruck Success: Wallabies 98%; England 92%
Turnovers Conceded: Wallabies 24; England 10
Handling Errors: Wallabies 14; England 4

Comments:

1. I reckon that a Forward's Ruck Involvement is a good measure of work rate and effort for the team.
2. For Backs - some are more involved than others.
3. In this game:
+ Both teams supported their ball carriers with about 3 players per ruck in Attack (Australia 2.6; England 3.0)
+ In an effort to maintain the defensive line both teams stood off rucks in Defence. England averaged 0.4 players per ruck; Australia 1.6 players per ruck (in addition to the tackler/tackle assist). Usually this number averages 2.5-3.0.
4. Sam Carter's effort at the breakdown is one indication of why he was selected for this game.
5. The Wallabies bench provided strong breakdown support.
+ Big contribution from Dean Mumm.
+ Strong contributions from McCalman, Smith, Holmes
5. In both Tests Itoje has the highest number of Ruck Involvements for England.
6. England's Front Rowers were about 25% more involved then their Wallabies counterparts.
7. Wallabies Backs were about 60% more involved than England's Backs.
8. England's Backs have minimal involvement in supporting their own ball carriers.
9. Support of the Wallabies ball carriers is fairly evenly distributed across all player groups.
10. England's Locks and Backs have only 60% of the involvement in Defence Rucks of their Wallabies counterparts.
11. Highest Ruck Involvements by Wallabies Backs as follows:
+ Kuridrani - 23 Total (22Attack/1Defence)
+ Folau - 18T (17A/1D)
+ Horne - 18T (17A/0D)
+ Haylett-Petty - 16T (14A/2D)
12. Highest Ruck Involvements by England Backs as follows:
+ Brown - 10T (3A/7D)
+ Joseph - 9T (4A/5D)

 

[Viking]

Seb V, by way of comparison, could you remind us of your win/loss ratio when you were a Wallaby?!!

Matt Burke is that you?

 

[the sabanator]

Thanks - it did look like the bind was leaving him in an awkward position right from the start. Slipper and Sio are quality props. Why doesn't that happen all the time. How can they counter it. Our TH were never able to put their LH under the same pressure. When we dominated them in the RWC it was by out shoving them, not by making them fold.

It's called the Dark Arts for a reason!

This isn't such a bad start:
http://www.betterrugbycoaching.com/...uts-Tips-for-the-loose-head-in-a-rugby-scrum#

 

[Quick Hands]

As much as some people might not like it, the reality is that the best available person to coach the Wallabies is the current coach and while there may be the odd dissagreement with individuals, he's picked pretty much the best available squad.

We've lost a couple of games - this one at least to a team which played better on the night.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Can't have been too many other Aussie 7s that have got so many best player votes while hitting just 13 rucks out of around 80 in a half of rugby.

Hoops spent an awful lot of time out on the right wing in the second half.

 

[zer0]

I think you all need to put aside your angst and acknowledge the real looser of this test. Adam Ashley-Cooper.

Poor chap.

 

[cyclopath]

Can't have been too many other Aussie 7s that have got so many best player votes while hitting just 13 rucks out of around 80 in a half of rugby.

Hoops spent an awful lot of time out on the right wing in the second half.

It's almost like he might have been instructed to do that, try to find some wider spaces and all, if you look at how many rucks Mumm was hitting, having replaced Arnold, who hit very few in the first half. Or maybe it's a coincidence.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's almost like he might have been instructed to do that, try to find some wider spaces and all, if you look at how many rucks Mumm was hitting, having replaced Arnold, who hit very few in the first half. Or maybe it's a coincidence.

Of course it's instructions. Cheika wouldn't keep picking him otherwise. And he was one of our best players.

Still think it noticeable and interesting that our 7 is involved in 13 rucks in the second half of both test matches against England and 6 defensive rucks total in both games as well.

He's breaking the mold of what we expect a 7 to be doing out there.

 

[tragic]

Can't have been too many other Aussie 7s that have got so many best player votes while hitting just 13 rucks out of around 80 in a half of rugby.

Hoops spent an awful lot of time out on the right wing in the second half.

Interesting isn't it. Made of teflon at the moment.
Higgers spent his career getting shitcanned for seagulling and hoops consistently gets rated top 3 for it.
He's a great player but if we had a read or vermuelen at 8 he would be on the bench, with pocock at 7. The size and lack go forward of our backrowers, and their lack of impact at the breakdown is hurting us. And whether they're being instructed or not I'd rather a winger on the wing.

 

[cyclopath]

Of coarse it's instructions. Cheika wouldn't keep picking him otherwise. And he was one of our best players.

Still think it noticeable and interesting that our 7 is involved in 13 rucks in the second half of both test matches against England and 6 defensive rucks total in both games as well.

He's breaking the mold of what we expect a 7 to be doing out therr

Sorry, I seem to have mis-represented your original post. My bad.
The stats were interesting too in that a player like Mumm, for example, did quite a lot in his time, contrary to some of the vibe on here.
And the last 10 mins of the first half was mental!

 

[ForceFan]

And the last 10 mins of the first half was mental!

And an absolute bitch to collect the stats and get them right.
I vote to kill the spidercam (but keep it for ohead on scrums) as the long shots make player id bloody difficult/time consuming.