Wallabies v England in Melbourne, 18 June

[Joe Blow]

It is a good point about the bomb. I don't understand why we don't use the fact we've got one of the best takers of the high ball in the world more.

Bomb to Folau in the corner isn't a bad option when there is nothing happening after 6-8 phases.

This is where Gits and To'omua are great. Both have excellent short kicking games. Beale as well.
To'omua also has the advantage of being one of the best defensive centres in Australia. Wish we would have had one of these blokes for this series.

Talking about the grubber more than up and unders. We could have used some little chips in behind the rush defense to keep the Poms on their toes.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Sorry, I seem to have mis-represented your original post. My bad.
The stats were interesting too in that a player like Mumm, for example, did quite a lot in his time, contrary to some of the vibe on here.
And the last 10 mins of the first half was mental!

Pretty much like a Ben McCalman - lots of work but too little effectiveness.

 

[No4918]

NO LET'S FUCKING PANIC AND REPLACE MOST OF THE TEAM WITH THE SECOND LAST PLACED QUEENSLAND REDS!!!

Let's ignore the Reds bit and wonder about the state of the Australian teams as a whole. All have been rather shit really. The Brumbies and Tahs have had their moments but been inconsistent.

Is any of the lack of skill coming through in the Wallabies a hangover from the average season generally?

 

[ExiledinBorders]

A tough ask to play England 6 nations champions who are at the end of the season with a team that is lacking cohesion and in the middle of the super 15 competition. That comes down to the administration by the ARU.

Another way of looking at it is that the England players played in the World Cup at the end of their domestic season (which is longer than Super Rugby) and then went straight into a another full domestic and international season virtually without a break. They have been playing virtually non stop for twenty months. I would have thought it was a good opportunity to beat them.

As for the general point the reverse applies when the Southern Hemisphere teams come North in November. They meet NH teams in the middle of their domestic season when the teams have played no internationals.

 

[BarneySF]

Another way of looking at it is that the England players played in the World Cup at the end of their domestic season (which is longer than Super Rugby) and then went straight into a another full domestic and international season virtually without a break. They have been playing virtually non stop for twenty months. I would have thought it was a good opportunity to beat them.

As for the general point the reverse applies when the Southern Hemisphere teams come North in November. They meet NH teams in the middle of their domestic season when the teams have played no internationals.

Agree. In the past when the June tours took place, my recollection was we'd traditionally roll the visiting teams with the explanation being either: (a) a 'B' team was sent [read:France a few years back]; or (b) NH team was 'at the end of a long season' and were fatigued-out.

Now it's the visiting side has had a good while together and have gelled accordingly, with us being undercooked, under skilled etc etc.

Dumb question- do we play England again on an EOYT?


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[Dave Beat]

I don't think we were building phases with a purpose, we were simply recycling.

I couldn't work out our game plan, people say play whats in front of you;
Time is in front of you, a team should build - saw none of that.

The games history;
So where is Poms weaknesses, and how do we exploit them.
Field position and taking 3 point options isnt my cup of tea either.

 

[KOB1987]

Agree. In the past when the June tours took place, my recollection was we'd traditionally roll the visiting teams with the explanation being either: (a) a 'B' team was sent [read:France a few years back]; or (b) NH team was 'at the end of a long season' and were fatigued-out.

Now it's the visiting side has had a good while together and have gelled accordingly, with us being undercooked, under skilled etc etc.

Dumb question- do we play England again on an EOYT?


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Yes, December 3rd. It's the final game of the tour

 

[BarneySF]

Yes, December 3rd. It's the final game of the tour

What's the metric for winning back the CC - win by X or just beat em!!!!?


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Edit: Then we can play the role of team being together for a while and the poms can be rusty.

 

[cyclopath]

Pretty much like a Ben McCalman - lots of work but too little effectiveness.

That wasn't what I was saying.

 

[fatprop]

I don't think we were building phases with a purpose, we were simply recycling.

I couldn't work out our game plan, people say play whats in front of you;
Time is in front of you, a team should build - saw none of that.

The games history;
So where is Poms weaknesses, and how do we exploit them.
Field position and taking 3 point options isnt my cup of tea either.

There was the usual lack of effort of the support runners to do anything but shovel it wider.

While it may have been the game plan to move the Poms around, without the guys running inside lines and different angles, the response is drift and tackle.

We missed that other creative unit like Beale, who has pace and guile to support Foley. To create threat and doubt. At various times Foley (and Kerevi) took on the line well but the next phase was just more pass the parcel (there were no support runners looking to leverage the half break)

The best example of how it should be done was in one of the NZ super derbies this year, 15 odd phases in and a lock makes the effort to run an inside line so a prop has an inside and outside running option (and the lock scores)

Same as the kicks, a good chase changes our impression of any kick, no chaser, it is a lobbed return of serve.

Too often there is no chaser, just units rearranging to receive the ball again, but only the guys already there, none of the rest are working hard back to give any option to out ball receiver to spread the ball on counter

 

[Dave Beat]

There was the usual lack of effort of the support runners to do anything but shovel it wider.

While it may have been the game plan to move the Poms around, without the guys running inside lines and different angles, the response is drift and tackle.

We missed that other creative unit like Beale, who has pace and guile to support Foley. To create threat and doubt. At various times Foley (and Kerevi) took on the line well but the next phase was just more pass the parcel (there were no support runners looking to leverage the half break)

The best example of how it should be done was in one of the NZ super derbies this year, 15 odd phases in and a lock makes the effort to run an inside line so a prop has an inside and outside running option (and the lock scores)

Same as the kicks, a good chase changes our impression of any kick, no chaser, it is a lobbed return of serve.

Too often there is no chaser, just units rearranging to receive the ball again, but only the guys already there, none of the rest are working hard back to give any option to out ball receiver to spread the ball on counter

That's what I'm talking about.
I'm please some one else saw Foley taking on the line, but then nothing.

 

[fatprop]

Many keep waxing on about how we miss Beale. We miss a no.10 who can steer our ship, and Foley is not it, hasn't been for a long time. We have a backline with frightening potential, and 70% possession in the two games. Join the dots. And surely beating the soapdodgers at home was one of Cheika's KPI's. He's hung his hat on Foley. And during his interview, not a mention of an apology to all those who paid hard earned for tickets to the two games. (Why should they bother next time?). Perhaps next weeks game should be free for supporters as a gesture, the money deducted from their match payments. I can't even watch the Wallaby sponsored adds without cringing (How do sponsors feel?).

They need to come out and acknowledge that they are only the forth team to lose to England at home. They need to wear that millstone, and make some gesture of apology to those teams that have toiled in the past to uphold that great record at home against the poms.

I'm angry. Why don't the Wallabies seem to be?

Sorry, but wtf?

We lost to a team who played better on the night, that happens, but apology?

Would a ritual suicide by the team be sufficient?

 

[John S]

Muzza, FYI, it's called "short term memory loss"!

Usually brought on by drowning ones sorrows with any alcoholic beverage after watching said "worst performance"?

 

[Scrubber2050]

English defence was awesome.

Foley and Fardy were very poor. Foley's kicking was sub standard, Fardy gave away 3 penalties and 3 dropped balls (I think). I would be dropping him altogether.

Chek is the best available but reckon his reputation is now a little dented.

To me, Folau was a standout and probably his best test for a year.

Hooper was OK around the field but should never be allowed to captain Australia again. His decision making at crucial times is poor. His decision last year against the AB's probably cost us a win, last weeks decision was at best, below par, and the decision not to take a "giveme" 3 points with about 20 to go was horrific.

He is a great soldier, but a General, he'll never be.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Interesting that no-one has commented that a first test drawn result (had it happened) would still have seen the CC stay with England after the second test result. So, now I've said it.

My feeling is that the third test result is now immaterial. Time to be adventurous and bring in some new blood as a start to replacing those who will not be around for RWC 2019, and who have just been part of the first series loss to a touring England side.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Moore's captaincy seems to be an issue with some posters.

To think of him leading the team at RWC 2019 is beyond belief. I am surprised that the Reds actually signed him at this stage of his career.

His scrummaging is a long way behind TPN and his general play doesn't seem to be inspiring those around him. His communication skills with refs is poor. I would actually start Taf next week and run him for 20 to 30 minutes hoping and praying there are no lineouts but about 8 scrums in that time

Personally I believe he should be removed as captain but upon reflection think about alternatives
Slipper - maybe
Keps - nah
Sio - Nah
TPN - Nah and at end of Australian rugby
Simmons, Carter, Douglas, Arnold, Coleman, McCalman - Nah
Hooper - has showed he is incapable of making good decisions under pressure - as said great soldier but not a general
Pocock - maybe but he's pissing off anyway
McMahon - Nah
Phipps - Nah
Frisby - Nah
Foley - Nah
Kerevi/TK - Nash
Horne - Nah - too far out of the action
Folau - Nah - great soldier, once again but I don't think he is captaincy material.
To'omua/Lilo - maybe
Maybe there is not an alternative at the moment, so we stick with the incumbent

Am sure Chek will make some changes for the third match

 

[Scrubber2050]

Scrubber.. you have left me with a bittersweet feeling. Poor McMahon could not beat Poey's run metres. The weak weak little back-rower he is.

McMahon 13 Metres.
Pocock 19 Metres.

Care for some humble pie?

Just got back from the bakery (believe me it was NOT a Brumby's bakery), with a huge "Humble Pie" and choked it down

Good call

 

[emuarse]

Moore's captaincy seems to be an issue with some posters.

To think of him leading the team at RWC 2019 is beyond belief. I am surprised that the Reds actually signed him at this stage of his career.

His scrummaging is a long way behind TPN and his general play doesn't seem to be inspiring those around him. His communication skills with refs is poor. I would actually start Taf next week and run him for 20 to 30 minutes hoping and praying there are no lineouts but about 8 scrums in that time

Personally I believe he should be removed as captain but upon reflection think about alternatives
Slipper - maybe
Keps - nah
Sio - Nah
TPN - Nah and at end of Australian rugby
Simmons, Carter, Douglas, Arnold, Coleman, McCalman - Nah
Hooper - has showed he is incapable of making good decisions under pressure - as said great soldier but not a general
Pocock - maybe but he's pissing off anyway
McMahon - Nah
Phipps - Nah
Frisby - Nah
Foley - Nah
Kerevi/TK - Nash
Horne - Nah - too far out of the action
Folau - Nah - great soldier, once again but I don't think he is captaincy material.
To'omua/Lilo - maybe
Maybe there is not an alternative at the moment, so we stick with the incumbent

Am sure Chek will make some changes for the third match

Good to see some of the posters doing such insight depth analysis. Its obvious to see a considerable amount of your time has been put aside, Scrubber.
Maybe you could have just said 'maybe' for Slipper to arrive at the same conclusion.

 

[Viking]

Moore's captaincy seems to be an issue with some posters.

To think of him leading the team at RWC 2019 is beyond belief. I am surprised that the Reds actually signed him at this stage of his career.

His scrummaging is a long way behind TPN and his general play doesn't seem to be inspiring those around him. His communication skills with refs is poor. I would actually start Taf next week and run him for 20 to 30 minutes hoping and praying there are no lineouts but about 8 scrums in that time

Personally I believe he should be removed as captain but upon reflection think about alternatives
Slipper - maybe
Keps - nah
Sio - Nah
TPN - Nah and at end of Australian rugby
Simmons, Carter, Douglas, Arnold, Coleman, McCalman - Nah
Hooper - has showed he is incapable of making good decisions under pressure - as said great soldier but not a general
Pocock - maybe but he's pissing off anyway
McMahon - Nah
Phipps - Nah
Frisby - Nah
Foley - Nah
Kerevi/TK - Nash
Horne - Nah - too far out of the action
Folau - Nah - great soldier, once again but I don't think he is captaincy material.
To'omua/Lilo - maybe
Maybe there is not an alternative at the moment, so we stick with the incumbent

Am sure Chek will make some changes for the third match

As bad as I think Moore is, I don't think Captaincy a major issue.

However looking at your list, Douglas' name actually popped up at me. A fit Douglas is almost certainly going to be picked. He seems like a smart enough bloke, can lead by example - I like an enforcer as Captain.

No-one else in the team has a firm enough hold on their position. Cheika may say Foley (I would disagree), plus I very much doubt he is leadership material.

Slipper would be good, but I think Sio/Slipper should alternate given who is in the better form at the time.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

Just got back from the bakery (believe me it was NOT a Brumby's bakery), with a huge "Humble Pie" and choked it down

Good call

Foxsports had McMahan with 11 runs for 45 metres, 3 tackle busts.