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Wallabies v Italy Take 2 - changes a bloody plenty

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Newb

Trevor Allan (34)
sure, it wasn't the prettiest game the wallabies have ever played, but i think it got the job done. i'm fairly confident that robbie will say about the same.

as some have pointed out already, good experience gained and not much lost i figure. no one on the bench looked too shattered about not getting a run. the guys were having a good laugh at the end and looked happy to still have their track suits on. as RDJ said, if one less refined game or a small decrease in time on the field ruins their form, well then there is something else wrong.

i think most of the blokes stood up well. no one had a shocker. mumm recovered very well, proved he's a lock first again. front row did good enough, especially in open field play but scrummaging still better than i expected. taffy still needs to work out the throwing, but better calls could help and the whole line out crew was pretty fresh when you consider the thrower and lifters hadn't put in much time together. kimlin might be a bit worried as this makes 2 games were he was just average for me. big kev solid. pocock and smith more than handled themselves. waugh out of the picture, thanks for coming.

burgess doing it all well at the moment. barnes got better as the game went on, did well to get it wide in a few instances and D looked good. hynes never got a chance to get stuck in, i think he deserves another shot. turner good again, retains spot. quade and cross did pretty well, especially with ball in hand and at offloading. not convinced about them as a defensive pairing though, far too absent for me. JOC (James O'Connor) a little aimless in kicking or just not as sharp, but still had some great runs. didn't notice him in defense so it will be interesting to see if/when he gets a real test. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) again proved his worth, just stellar IMO. happy with him, JOC (James O'Connor) and turner as fullback options.

thought some of mallet's comments after the game were a bit shocking. i know they're putting it all in perspective but jeeezzz....:

"I was very proud of the performances in the last two weeks ... to lose by 20 points in both games against the Wallabies is a great result.

"Playing away from home I would have signed up any day on conceding just thirty points in either Test match."


gotta be a better way to say that.... can you imagine mooney saying that after a few Reds games?? ::) ???

it will be interesting to see the teams picked for the french test. they're obviously a big level up from the italians (for one, they can actually score tries). i'm going to guess much more full strength but maybe a few insertions of new blood here and there, especially off the bench. but it's time to get serious now. the big boys are coming soon ;D
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Scarfman said:
I don't see the point of that. Make the second stringer's feel bad about how much worse they are than the incumbents? Lose momentum, combinations?

Kill rotation now.

I felt sorry for the poor Victorians who paid good money for that pile of shit.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
If JOC (James O'Connor) is going to lose confidence from that performance then he has no future in test footy.

In saying that, I would suggest it will take a little more for his confidence to be battered.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
I think AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has shown more than Hynes. I'd like to see him picked, at least on the wing against the french
 

the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
General concensus at the end of last year was that Deans was mad for persisting with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as a fullback. Now it appears that most are picking him to be there against the French and, I'm assuming, also for the tri nations.

I sat on the fence last year as AACs kicking game and option taking certainly created reservations, however his current form seems to be repaying Deans' faith. Is this a) a case of a coach getting lucky? b) a coach seeing something noone else could? or c) a case of a false dawn and the coach not actually able to pick his own nose, even in his own former position?
 
S

Spook

Guest
AACs biggest problem was his kicking. Deans has done a great job with the Wallabies kicking in general.

I remember that 3 years ago AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) couldn't even catch a bomb for the Brumbies. He was always a dangerous runner with a great fend but is now developing into the complete player.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Scotty said:
I still don't see him as a fullback. I want him on the wing or at 13.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) look just excellent against the Baa Baas at 15, especially his kicking and I expect him to be there for the big games.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Probably, but only makes one out of something like 6 or 7 games at fullback for the wallabies where he has performed above average. And I’m sure you will agree he is a better wing/OC than fullback.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Scotty said:
Probably, but only makes one out of something like 6 or 7 games at fullback for the wallabies where he has performed above average. And I’m sure you will agree he is a better wing/OC than fullback.

Probably, but he is our best option to start a test at the moment, especially with Mitchell and Turner (2 fullback/wingers) either side of him. I think it makes a very dangerous back 3.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
I agree AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had a great game on Sat (even game him 2 points) but for me that doesn't make him the full-back.

The tries he scored could/should well have been scored by him with a 13 on his back - it's where he was running in the line for both of them.

Positionally or kicking wise I didn't see anything to make me think he's become the goods at 15. I saw one good kick against the BaaBaas. Thankfully he seems to have got the message on the Bobas #3's (midfield bombs) but I suspect we'll see those again under pressure.

Truth is he's not a utility back, he's an excellent 13 stuck behind Morty and for some reason Ryan Cross.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Gagger said:
I agree AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had a great game on Sat (even game him 2 points) but for me that doesn't make him the full-back.

The tries he scored could/should well have been scored by him with a 13 on his back - it's where he was running in the line for both of them.

Positionally or kicking wise I didn't see anything to make me think he's become the goods at 15. I saw one good kick against the BaaBaas. Thankfully he seems to have got the message on the Bobas #3's (midfield bombs) but I suspect we'll see those again under pressure.

Truth is he's not a utility back, he's an excellent 13 stuck behind Morty and for some reason Ryan Cross.
As I have said and felt for a while. The problem is that criticism of him as a 15 gets misconstrued as casting him as a bad player, which he clearly isn't. He isn't "bad" at 15, but I just think, like others it isn't his best spot.
Scoring the 2 tries was great, but not defining of a good 15, just as JOC (James O'Connor)'s 3 tries were all well and good, but what I thought JOC (James O'Connor) did well was his positional play(mostly) and kick.
Of the back 3, I reckon Turner or Mitchell would probably fill the 15 position better, and play AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on the wing, until he can have 13 which is the position he would / should own.
That said, I think the back 3 will play as a unit under Deans and be a little interchangeable anyway. I'm just happy that there are at least 2 players who can play at 15 at the moment.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Just realised why the scrum didn't suck as bad as I feared it would: Sharpe wasn't at loosehead lock.

And the big poof is back this week, ready for us to get snapped...
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
I've said in the past that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a top outside centre, a goodish wing and a below average fullback, but I have seen a lot of improvement in his work at the back.

Let's keep watching him with an open mind - free of what we thought before.

Players get better - or worse. I remember saying not too long ago that Ioane was just a runner and lacking in the "assistant fullback" attributes a winger needs - and more so under the ELVs.

He got better, and maybe AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has too. Let's watch this space.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Who takes the 12 (his man) then?

That's who he's tracking (Cross takes the 13) when the 14 comes through.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
The first miss:

The backrow or Burgess should pick up anyone coming back on the inside. I think the Wobs were playing drift at that time meaning that Barnes will tackle the 12 and Cooper should be tackling the 13. By virtue of Gower running across field so much, Barnes had drifted to the 2nd man (which was still Gower) leaving the first man (the 12) to be cleaned up by the backrow. The winger coming in outside Gower becomes the 3rd man but Cooper hadnt drifted enough and had turned his shoulders/hips back inside so the winger beat him easily. You can see Burgess is there for a close ball on the inside and the backrow will be behind him to plug that gap. Because Cooper hadnt drifted enough, Cross slowed his drift knowing there was space on the inside. In the end he tried to make the tackle too but couldnt do it.

This is either Barnes not talking enough, Cooper not having faith in Barnes as a defender or Cooper just not doing what he is being told to do. Its mostly a communication problem but could be a Cooper problem.

The second miss:

Cooper drifted too much and got done on the inside. It wouldnt have looked so bad except there was a tight five player on the inside who couldnt cover. If it had been a back, backrower or TPN, the 13 wouldnt have beaten the first cover tackle.

Horwill should have been telling Cooper he was inside him and to hold his drift a bit more. It was Cooper's miss because he drifted too hard, but was, again, a communication problem. Mostly a Cooper problem but, potentially, partly at least, a communication problem.

The third miss:

Cooper just got done. Its hard to believe he got done for pace because the 13 looked pretty slow. If he'd been on the guy a bit faster the palm would have been less effective.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
What Cutter said - if Barnes drifts onto 10 then QC (Quade Cooper) drifts onto the next man along, and has to trust the inside cover to come across.
 
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