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Wallabies v Pumas, Bankwest (Parra), Sat 5th December

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Lolesio was only marginally better than Harrison at Super Rugby. Behind a much, much better pack.

But, honestly, as long as one of them steps up i don't care which it is.

I’d say significantly better......... he dominated every other Aus flyhalf he came up against and was MOTM in the final.

I don’t think Harrison was ever in serious consideration for a starting test spot.

The kid has promise, but not in the same league as Lolesio, JOC (James O'Connor), To'omua, or maybe even Hodge.........
 

footy1>31

Ted Thorn (20)
I’d say significantly better... he dominated every other Aus flyhalf he came up against and was MOTM in the final.

I don’t think Harrison was ever in serious consideration for a starting test spot.

The kid has promise, but not in the same league as Lolesio, JOC (James O'Connor), To'omua, or maybe even Hodge...


Disagree, not in the same ballpark yet as the established 3 obvs but Harrison is par for par with Noah. A Ford/Farrell situation likely emerges where they are too good not to have on the park together imo.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
I’d say significantly better... he dominated every other Aus flyhalf he came up against and was MOTM in the final.

I don’t think Harrison was ever in serious consideration for a starting test spot.

The kid has promise, but not in the same league as Lolesio, JOC (James O'Connor), To'omua, or maybe even Hodge...
Is BR holding a gun to your head?
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Disagree, not in the same ballpark yet as the established 3 obvs but Harrison is par for par with Noah. A Ford/Farrell situation likely emerges where they are too good not to have on the park together imo.

On par would mean that he’s performed up to that level.......... he hasn’t yet.
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
It’s great to see so much positive coverage of rugby today with regards to the national anthem sung in both English and one of the traditional Aboriginal languages.

Looks like it might become a thing - which would be great IMO.

It is a bit of a pity the game itself was something of a let down from that heights but, to be honest, the significance of an individual game vs the significance of doing a dual language version of the national anthem - well, the game really was just a game in the whole scheme of things.
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
On par would mean that he’s performed up to that level.... he hasn’t yet.
No - he hasn’t yet. Lolesio has got the jump on him and it is well deserved. Lolesio has made virtually every post a winner except one and I thing you can forgive him for not killing it vs the ABs on debut.

I do still think Harrison will be our next long term 10 and I very much look forward to seeing if the hype on both Carter Gordon & Reesjan Pasitoa is in the mark. But credit where it’s due for Lolesio’s fine year (even with an injury disruption). It’s great to see these guys coming through.

Still some work to do in the 6, 9 & 15 jerseys I feel but the depth in the 10 jersey looks like it could be the best it has been - possibly ever.
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
You know that not all those names are the same, and we could add Nic White or AAA on that list too.

Be my guest, knock yourself out, but both of those players were among the best and would be sorely missed unlike any of those I named (imo).
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
Lolesio was only marginally better than Harrison at Super Rugby. Behind a much, much better pack.

But, honestly, as long as one of them steps up i don't care which it is.
Absolutely, these threads will be just like the bad old days I.e. Foley v Cooper with a NSWelshman and a Queenslander battling out for National fly half honours ;-)
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
Samu, 7A, Slipper, White? It seems your age retirement plan and annoyance at “the same old culprits” has a natural skew.

To'omua and JOC (James O'Connor) are hardly “the same old culprits”, old/mature sure but not part of the recent past. Did DHP actually get much time? Simmons won’t be around long but has actually been one of our best the last two games. You dont like it sure, but Hooper is consistently one of our best. Hanigan is 25 and nowhere near retirement. Koroibete has an easy 4 years professional rugby in him. As does Hodge who is hard to replace on the bench.

I dont disagree that something needs to shift. But Brumbies rose coloured glasses to selection is not an answer. Not by a long shot.

It frustrates me that people continue to say Simmons was one of the best. He has always underperformed at test level and simply was woeful this weekend.

I do not intend to single out players based on age. The use of "old" was in the context of "same old, same old ", meaning those who were around for most of the last 5 years. White has only recently returned to the team and while somewhat inconsistent, he hasn't been seriously challenged for his spot. Ala'alatoa is world class so, of course, he should be dropped. I don't understand the disrespect fans of other teams have for Brumbies players when they have proven over a period of years to be the best team in the country.

The players I mentioned have been generally poor performers and there are others in the pipeline right now who can do their jobs. Others with more potential, higher ceilings who will be the future for the Wallabies. Specifically, McReight for Hooper who is clearly on the wane, Hosea for Simmons who couldn't run through wet tissues without falling over, Swinton or Valetini for Hanigan who has never reached test standard in any aspect bar the lineout, Lolesio for JOC (James O'Connor) who really is not a No 10 and likely won't make it to the RWC in 23, and Ramm for Koroibete who makes too many mistakes and has deficiencies in his skillset. Now, please take off your Brumbies hating glasses and tell me where I am biased in these observations.
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
Lolesio was only marginally better than Harrison at Super Rugby. Behind a much, much better pack.

But, honestly, as long as one of them steps up i don't care which it is.

Hopefully both will step up for next year. JOC (James O'Connor) is not our No 10 for 2021 and beyond.

Remember too, that Will was behind a very decent pack in two games against the Pumas and was very to extremely disappointing. I'd say the margin between them is wider than a few on here admit.
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Didn’t see the first game, the second had unlimited changes with the Pumas playing their entire squad v 28. Both are good players, it’ll be a good outcome if a rivalry develops and they push each other to be better players.
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Well, I’ll give it a crack -
- Hooper was the form 7 in Super Rugby AU (McReight did well, but Hooper was better) and he was conistently strong for the Wallabies (didn’t he top almost every tackle count + feature pretty consistently in the run metres)
- Simmonds had been acknowledged by most on here as having been pretty strong over the test series, including some who’ve included a disclaimer that they weren’t fans
- I’ll give you Hanigan. He has been better, but is still some way short of being up to the standard we need in a 6. Problem is, so are all the others with the possible exception of Swinton who had one good half then got red carded. Valetini still has some way to go
- Lolesio has had a great year. JOC (James O'Connor) has too and was very good at 10 for the Reds. He is a seasoned veteran with 10 yrs test experience. I do think he is very vunerable if one of the young 10s show a big degree of kicking accuracy next year
- Koroibete is the reigning John Eales medalist, was almost MOM in the first Bledisloe and is one of our consistently hardest workers. He is no more deficient in his skill set then a number of other prominent strike wingers and has a better work rate than almost all of them. Ramm has a good year - but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. He shows promise, he wasn’t outstanding
 

Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)
The last couple of pages of this thread sums up the state of Australian Rugby. Arguing over 2 rookie fly half’s with one season of Super Rugby (Australia at that). Or in Swinton who had a 30 minute stint and is the next saviour of Australian Rugby and it wasn’t that long ago Jordan Petaia was the saviour of the month for Australian Rugby. Not to say that these guys aren’t the future and have a lot of potential. But that is exactly what it is potential.

Michael Hooper a guy who has delivered on his potential with consistently high performances at Super and Test level season after season is the favourite punching bag of many. I don’t get it. Not a couple of good games season after season he performs.

I don’t care how they played last year, I don’t care how big a schoolboy rockstar they were, they don’t have the runs on the board to use a cricket term, they would be lucky to have 500 career test runs and Michael Hooper would be plus 10,000. All that matters is how they play next season in Super Rugby and the season after that.
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
It frustrates me that people continue to say Simmons was one of the best. He has always underperformed at test level and simply was woeful this weekend.

I do not intend to single out players based on age. The use of "old" was in the context of "same old, same old ", meaning those who were around for most of the last 5 years. White has only recently returned to the team and while somewhat inconsistent, he hasn't been seriously challenged for his spot. Ala'alatoa is world class so, of course, he should be dropped. I don't understand the disrespect fans of other teams have for Brumbies players when they have proven over a period of years to be the best team in the country.

The players I mentioned have been generally poor performers and there are others in the pipeline right now who can do their jobs. Others with more potential, higher ceilings who will be the future for the Wallabies. Specifically, McReight for Hooper who is clearly on the wane, Hosea for Simmons who couldn't run through wet tissues without falling over, Swinton or Valetini for Hanigan who has never reached test standard in any aspect bar the lineout, Lolesio for JOC (James O'Connor) who really is not a No 10 and likely won't make it to the RWC in 23, and Ramm for Koroibete who makes too many mistakes and has deficiencies in his skillset. Now, please take off your Brumbies hating glasses and tell me where I am biased in these observations.

It’s the skew that is disappointing BR. I’m thinking that swapping Brumbie jersies for gold is possibly not our strongest answer and it is hardly dissing the Brumbies.

I’ll let you be frustrated by my thoughts on Simmo, so be it. Probably the same for Hooper.

So far Valetini is overhyped, indeed ditto to McReight over Hooper (it may change) and I really hope Hosea gets more exposure. Hanigan has not been around at international level for 5 years. Swinton I want but another red and he can stuff off. And Hanigan might go to 20. Lolesio got nothing, not just not better than than JOC (James O'Connor) but not better than Hodge. (Think it through.) Next year who knows, especially considering the young talent becoming available. Ramm?

I don’t hate brumbies, I’m irritated by basically unabashed Brumby bias when we have much bigger issues to skin. The answer to all our problems is not a Brumby. Not necessarily anyway.
 

Joe Blow

Peter Sullivan (51)
Agreed. Your provincial bias is clouding your judgement BR. There are some worthy Brumby Wallabies but we also have a lot of good players from other teams.
On Simmons and Hanigan, test coaches keep picking them. They might not be the cream of the crop historically but I’m guessing they are the cream of this crop/squad right now.
The young blokes across the board will take another step forward in 2021, including the Brumbies rookies. Let’s hope its a better year results wise than this one.
 

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)
BR completely forgot one of the most disappointing players over the last 24months in Sio but mentions our best player in Koroibete over that time. Sums it all up.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
BR completely forgot one of the most disappointing players over the last 24months in Sio but mentions our best player in Koroibete over that time. Sums it all up.

I’d say you’re both wrong...........

Both of those players were great last year, Korobeite especially..........

This year Korobeite’s test form fluctuated wildly - fantastic one week, awful the next......... more of the latter.

Sio has had a year to forget - if he weren’t the incumbent with a good history you’d question his position in the squad based on lousy Super Rugby form.......... but gradually improved and was pretty decent on the weekend though.
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
Good for you KOB. Would you agree that Noah is ahead of Will in the pecking order right now?
Right now yes. Harrison is a more natural fly half and has a higher ceiling. I would not be surprised at all to see 10. Harrison 12. Lolesio evolve as the future pairing.
 
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