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Wallabies v. Springboks, 18th July 2015, Suncorp, Brisbane

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FrankLind

Colin Windon (37)
Someone needs to smack that Wannabe-Bakkies smile off Etzebeth's face. See if he keeps gurning after he's lost some teeth. At least he fired up Horwill for the rest of the match.

He has the exceptionally annoying habit of getting in verbals or a petty pushing match in virtually every test match I have seen him in (though that isn't a lot) And that smug ("I'm not angry but actually I am" grin), what a tosser.


Unfortunately, he is also a very good player getting better.
 

TahDan

Cyril Towers (30)
There's a number of reasons to chose from, and you can get an idea of them by browsing a few other threads and probably even the early parts of this one. I'm not going to de-rail this thread going into them, but don't underestimate the damage to the "brand" done over the last 12-18 months. That will take time to recover.

As for soccer having a large following, in Qld, you might look a bit closer to home :) - there were more than 80,000 people at ANZ stadium a month ago to watch the same thing (Chelsea vs Sydney). Considering that it's a rare occasion those teams will be playing here it's no surprise the crowds were big.
Fair enough I suppose.

Shame though - last year the Reds wee averaging in the 30s.

As for soccer - I wasn't saying it's not got a following in Sydney; indeed I'm well aware it does (out west in particular). I was more surprised that Brisbane showed similar levels, as I'd kinda looked at Brisbane and qld more generally as less interested in the dive-a-thon known as soccer


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Hardtackle

Charlie Fox (21)
I watched it just then for the first time and think there's a lot of nit picking from plenty on here. We usually play a few really scratchy games then come good. That effort was ok for mine. Only Higgers was under par. He'll go much better after a spray from Cheika. Most put in and the return to form of Kurindrani and the input of the bench were really positive.
 

Beefcake

Bill Watson (15)
I have been thinking about "Higgers" work on the weekend

He may have looked worse because of the game plan not working successfully in the first half.

We seemed to have Fardy & Higgers posted as wide support right and left; much wider that we usually play (sweeping generalisation but bare with me).

Now it didn't work and the best result of the plan in the first half was destroyed by Higger's kick (lack of trust in the system IMHO) but I would not be surprised if it is given another go.

What it lacked in the first half was effective cleanout work from the balance of the forwards, mediocre technique and slow clearance from the tackle area; and that led to turnovers and stopped any momentum, but when it did in the second half ...........

I reckon we will see the same forwards rolled out with the expectations that they will be better for the run.


All and sundry were lamenting his super form and offensive prowess, despite never actually transferring that form onto the international stage. Yet when the chance opened up, and not many do especially when playing the boks, he kicks it away.

If a player was truly remorseful for such a brain explosion, you would tend to think such a player would be proactive in going forward, making up for it in tackles, rucks etc, but he instead goes into his shell. Now he certainly has the goods in soup rugby, perhaps he is too fragile minded but no system can convince a player that he is infact good enough, if that player does not first think he is so.

While he does deserve a chance to improve on such a performance, he certainly put a question mark next to his name, and I would contend, increases Palu importance, and perhaps even recast a glimpse into the maybe pile (i.e. Vaea) or not.
 

Shelts89

Tom Lawton (22)
It has to be taken into account Robshaw is English; they are playing the French. Both Wales and the French despise England - well, most nations have some issue with England to some degree. He He.

But why!?!? We're so nice :D
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
Higgers was playing as a "super-11" in the 5 m train slot. Not something he is used to. He made a good fist of it. He didn't put him there, the coach did.

He owes us no apology. And fwiw, nor does the coach.

They're mixing it up. I like it.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11742673_1004160779605623_3583407542887314606_n.jpg?oh=6f01aec2dac01b48525a171ed800b360&oe=5615AE40&__gda__=1443872801_23d3b23ccb60f923fbf15b82390d4802
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
What happened in your view? I honestly can't work out how you get such a low crowd to a Springboks match - a massive and hated rival side of Australia's, the number 2 ranked team in the world and in a critical match leading into the world cup?

I mean FSS Queenslanders turned out in force to fill Suncorp out to watch a bunch of pommy soccer players prance around in a meaningless practice match against the 'Brisbane Meows' or whatever they're called. Why couldn't they turn up for a classic and top class Rugby grudge match that actually means something?

I had no idea soccer had such a following up there.

I couldn't get to the the game as I had a prior engagement but even if I could, I doubt I would've gone. I can only speak for myself, but the events of last year really challenged me as a supporter and left a pretty crappy taste in my mouth. To the point that I really haven't been that enthused about the Wallabies since. Add to that a less than mediocre Reds season and the thought of going to the game was all a bit meh.
I should probably add before I get labelled a sook or some other rubbish, it's a fair hike for me (1.5 hrs each way) to get there, but that hasn't stopped me in the past.
That game was something special though. It's possible that I may be at the start of the healing process. Anyway, that's where I'm at. I don't think I'm Robinson Crusoe.
 

Beefcake

Bill Watson (15)
Higgers was playing as a "super-11" in the 5 m train slot. Not something he is used to. He made a good fist of it. He didn't put him there, the coach did.

He owes us no apology. And fwiw, nor does the coach.

They're mixing it up. I like it.

Fair enough.

However, if the coach makes specific note of the error as one of three lost opportunities in the post match wash up, its safe to assume the coach didnt. But I spose, always room to improve.
 

Ulrich

Nev Cottrell (35)
Nah, tough guy wannabe with a silly haircut.
He he.

His uncles were well known for causing trouble.
His uncles, “Skattie” and Cliffie Etzebeth were known bar fighters. Cliffie himself – who last year became the world amateur wrestling champion in his age group at a mere 62 years old – told of how he and Skattie would go looking for fights in the Parow Hotel over weekends.
“It was easy [to start a fight], you know. You just take someone’s drink and wait for him to react. At the end of the month we’d go to the Parow Hotel when the Spoorweg (Railway) okes got paid. It was never hard to start a fight…”

There’s another story of how Skattie decked a young farmer one evening at a dance outside Stellenbosch. Skattie just carried on drinking casually. A few minutes later the confused guy got up and started walking unsteadily. Skattie looked up, put his drink down and said: “O, ek sien jy’s al weer op!” (Oh, I can see you’re up already!) and decked him straight away.

There’s another story how Cliffie (when he played for WP) was asked by Doc Craven to “look after Morné” – this after Morné du Plessis had tackled Naas Botha unconscious at Loftus. There were serious concerns about Morné’s safety, so Cliffie and one or two other guys sat down in the hotel corridor in front of Morné’s room, armed with a case or two beer.

Another beauty is the story of Skattie and Cliffie playing a game for Parow against UCT. The educated UCT boys were using line-out calls like “Pythagoras!”, “Aristoteles” and the like. So after a few line outs, Cliffie asked Skattie if he’d worked out their calls yet.

To which Skattie replied: “Nee, maar hulle gooi altyd op daai p**s met die rooi baard!” (No, but they’re always throwing at that p**s with the red beard!”
Both uncles were Springbok wrestlers.

Someone may want to translate this for you guys.

Dis asof die Goodwood-sportklub se kroeg effe stiller raak toe Cliffie Etzebeth by die deur instap met sy lang lyf. Party ouens staar na hom. Ander probeer maak of hulle nie staar nie. Dis asof almal wag vir iets om te gebeur, maar Cliffie laat rus net sy knobbelrige hande op die toonbank en sê so onderlangs: “Kry ’n mens nie iets hier om te drink nie?”

“Kom help vir Clifford!” roep iemand. “Bring vir Clifford ’n dop!”

Die kroegvrou skarrel nader. Niemand wil moeilikheid hê nie, want Cliffie is mos ’n Etzebeth – een van dáái Etzebeths.

Min mense in die Kaap het nog nie van die rowwe Etzebeths gehoor nie. Ook in die Noorde weet mense van hulle, want Cliffie het op sy dag op stut en slot vir die WP gesak. Hy en sy oorlede broer, Skattie, was ook Springbok-stoeiers. Oral hoor jy stories oor hulle: Hoe rof hulle op die rugbyveld was. Hoe Cliffie daai aand in daai kroeg daai ou geslaan het. Hoe Skattie glo eenkeer ’n sigaret op ’n ou se bolip doodgedruk het… Probleme, probleme, probleme.

Cliffie kry ’n bier en gaan sit by ’n tafeltjie met ’n plastiekkleedjie oor. Ek gaan sit langs hom, want as jare lange WP-ondersteuner wou ek hom nog altyd ontmoet. Cliffie het onder meer in 1977 in daardie wedstryd op Loftus gespeel toe Morné du Plessis vir Naas Botha bewusteloos geduik het – en byna ’n burgeroorlog in Suid-Afrika ontketen het.

Maar eers gesels Cliffie oor Bakkies Botha. Baie ouens hier praat vanaand oor Bakkies, wat Saterdag mos weer van die veld gejaag is.

“Bakkies is dom, man.” Cliffie se stem is sag, amper té sag. “Hoe kan jy ’n ou oop en bloot met die kop slaat? Jy kyk mos eers waar die skeidsregter is. Morné was die beste daarmee. Hy’t jou met die elmboog geslaat, of die knie. Maar daai tyd was dit makliker. Die vlagman het nie ’n sê gehad nie. Jy kon die ou voor die vlagman slaan, hy kon niks doen nie.”

Destyds is geglo elke goeie rugbyspan moet ’n meanie hê. Iemand soos Cliffie vir die WP, of Moaner van Heerden van die Blou Bulle, of Kevin de Klerk van Transvaal.

David Briers, ’n ou vriend van Cliffie wat self ook ’n Springbok-stoeier is, kom sit by ons by die tafeltjie. “Het jy hom al vertel hoe julle jou pa se duiwe geëet het?” vra hy.

Cliffie wens hy kon deesdae rugby gespeel het. “Hierdie ouens van nou word betaal. Hulle het die tyd om te oefen. Ons het twee keer ’n week geoefen. Jy kry R5 vir ’n oefening. As jy ’n wegwedstryd speel, kry jy R30. Hulle gee vir jou so ’n bruin koevertjie. Op die vliegtuig op pad terug gooi ons almal ons geld bymekaar. Dan kies elke man ’n nommer. Dan trek iemand die nommers, dan kry die wenner al die geld. Dok Augey Cohen, ons spandokter, het dikwels die geld gewen.”

Cliffie kyk na sy hande asof hy self verbaas is oor al die knoppe en skewe vingers. Hy het in Epping, ’n voorstad hier naby, grootgeraak. Sy pa, Stoffel, was ’n werker op die Spoorweë.

“Ons was nege kinders – daar was daai tyd mos nog nie TV nie.” Cliffie druk ’n glimlaggie uit. “In my pa-hulle se kamer het sommer drie wiegies vol kinders gestaan. Vier van ons broers het saam op ’n bed geslaap.”

“Vertel van die duiwe,” por David hom weer aan.

Cliffie bly ’n ruk stil. “Skattie was eintlik die moeilike een.” Skattie was die oudste broer en is in 1993 doodgeskiet terwyl hy besig was om skuldinvordering in Belhar te doen.

Cliffie trek met sy glas ’n wye kring oor die tafel. “Ons moes ná skool gaan werk. Ek en Skattie was saans nog bouncers ook, vir ekstra geld. Daai tyd mag jy nog ’n ou gedonner het. Partykeer as daar nie iets is om te slaan nie, dan sê Skattie: ‘Dis einde van die maand, kom ons sak gou Central Hotel toe. Die Spoorweg-ouens het geld gekry.’ ”

“Hoe begin ’n mens ’n bakleiery met iemand wat niks aan jou gedoen het nie?” vra ek.

“Maklik. Jy vat net sy drank af.” Cliffie lag nie.

Maar blykbaar is nie al die stories oor die Etzebeths waar nie. “Die ouens las sterte by. Een aand staan ek en Skattie weer in die Goodwood Hotel. Ons praat rugby. Een ou vra vir Skattie: ‘Ken jy die Etzebeths?’ Skattie sê: ‘Ja, ek ken hulle.’ Toe vertel die ou vir Skattie hoe het hy ons al gedonner.” Cliffie skud sy kop. “Toe rol Skattie maar die ou om.”

Dit was ook nie Skattie wat die sigaret op die ou se lip doodgedruk het nie – hy het die ou gaan help op wie se lip die sigaret doodgedruk is.

“Dit was in die ou Duikboot-kroeg by Nuweland. Ek en Skattie staan die Saterdag daar. Hier kom sê ’n ou: ‘Skattie, iemand druk sommer sy siegret om my lip dood, man.’ Skattie sê vir hom: ‘Wys vir my die ou.’

“Toe wys die ou na drie sulke groot manne. Ek dog Skattie slaat een van hulle dood, so skreeu daai ou.”

Cliffie se stem raak nog sagter wanneer hy oor oorlede Dok Craven en oorlede oom Boy Louw praat. In ’n sekere sin het rugby en stoei sy lewe gered. Daarin kon hy die frustrasies van ’n swaarkrylewe in Epping uitwoed.

“Oom Boy het my Ez-te-beth genoem, nie Etzebeth nie. Daai dag toe Morné vir Naas so gerol het op Loftus, toe kom oom Boy voor die wedstryd na my toe en sê: ‘Ez-te-beth, vanmiddag is jou derde wedstryd vir Provinsie. Vanaand kry jy jou baadjie. Wys hulle wie die ware jy is.”
’n Langerige stilte.

“Ek weet nie of mense besef nie, maar daai mense in Pretoria wou vir Morné daai dag doodmaak. Ná die wedstryd toe skree ’n poliesman vir Morné: ‘As ek nie my uniform aangehad het nie, het ek jou nou gedonner, Du Plessis!’

Toe sê oom Boy vir my en Flip van der Merwe: ‘Manne, julle twee pas vanaand vir Morné op.’ Toe kry Flip ’n kas Amstel. Toe gee ons vir Morné die klomp Amstel en sê hy moet in die hotelkamer bly, ons gaan eers paartie hou. Later die aand toe ons terugkom by die hotel, toe is Morné darem nog orraait. Toe gee Morné vir ons ook Amstel.”

So drie jaar voor sy dood het Skattie tot bekering gekom. Hy het die bakleiery gelos. Op Facebook is deesdae selfs ’n blad: “In memory of Skattie Etzebeth.”

“Skattie is ’n goeie ou dood,” sê Cliffie. “Jy moes sy begrafnis gesien het. Dok Craven-hulle het met ’n Kombi van Stellenbosch af gekom.”

Cliff maak weer ’n kring met die bottel voor hom op die tafel.

“Ons het nie altyd genoeg kos gehad toe ons kinders was, dan skiet ons tortelduiwe met die kettie, dan maak my ma vir ons sop. Later toe raak die tortelduiwe min, toe vat ons sommer twee van my pa se vliegduiwe.”

Deesdae werk Cliffie vir die Kaapse stadsraad. Hy is geskei, maar het ’n nuwe vriendin. Hy is president van die Goodwood-stoeiklub en stoei op die ouderdom van 61 steeds. Binnekort gaan hy aan die wêreldkampioenskapstoernooi vir veteraanstoeiers in Switserland deelneem.
Netnou het ’n dronkerige kêrel in ons rigting geskreeu: “Slaat hulle uitmekaar uit, ek sê!” Maar Cliffie het dit nie gehoor nie. Of hy het gemaak of hy nie hoor nie.

Baie dinge in die lewe kan jy nie reg slaan nie, het hy al geleer. Ons almal wil mos goeie ouens doodgaan.
 

Ulrich

Nev Cottrell (35)
Hey, found the translation.
Perhaps so. We're a strange bunch. We like picking fights at school and some of us were privileged enough to get corporal punishment at school for our indiscretions. Many today still get a good hiding even though it's technically illegal - we as parents just don't give a rats arse over what government prescribes us.

It instills discipline.

Also, Etzebeth's father wasn't part of this. Etzebeth is therefore more controlled being not drunk and all.

All I'm saying is he's probably not the best guy to go out to and look for trouble.
 

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Nonetheless I am astounded that someone would see fit to write an article on this, or that someone else would want to post the article here and apparently think that this behaviour was anything less than abhorrent.
 
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