Waratahs 2013

[Orange Peeler]

So OP, you picked the 2 points I was raising.
Did we really get anything out of Del (and others),
Could those dollars be used in the grass roots,

Faloa though it is still early, i hope he is used at grass roots level, rather than the ARU thinking we stole a league player lets waive the flag and that is all that happens.

Dave Beat,

Apparently we are a society of impulse buyers purchasing items that we really do not need.
The ARU and the Waratahs are shining examples of this retail phenomenon.
I hope the Israel Folau experiment works out, but Rugby has been down this road before only to come off second best

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave Beat,

Apparently we are a society of impulse buyers purchasing items that we really do not need.
The ARU and the Waratahs are shining examples of this retail phenomenon.
I hope the Israel Folau experiment works out, but Rugby has been down this road before only to come off second best

Just goes to show that it is not only wives that do this

 

[Groucho]

Israel Folau will always look the goods against a weaker team.
Unfortunately for the Waratahs I believe Israel will be a liability to the team against stronger opposition.

I am yet to be convinced of Izzy's understanding of the game in the following areas,

1) The tackle - what happens once the tackle has been made as a ball carrier or as the tackler.
2) The breakdown - apart from the laws I see Israel's main issue will be his decision making on when and when not to involve himself at the breakdown contest particularly as a League convert trying to play 15 or wing.
3) The rules of the game - As a potential back three player I would like to know if Israel is confident with his knowledge of the in goal area and touch line rules.

I realise that all of the above are basic concepts for a seasoned Rugby player. Israel can only master his Rugby Skills through constant game time. The question will be

a) does he have the ability to learn the finer points of the game playing Super Rugby or
b) when he is found out to be incompetent does he get sent back to the Shute Shield for further education.

It gets me thinking that his lack of desire to play AFL coincided with his stint in playing reserve grade for GWS.

I also don't understand why NSW Rugby is even taking him on when there is talk that he will be returning to Rugby League next year. The fact that there is talk of Israel returning back to League has alarm bells ringing in my ears. While the short term gain may be increased ticket sales the long term effect to the already fractured Rugby development pathway will be damaged beyond repair at grassroots level in NSW if and when this all blows up.

Please note that this is not me having a shot at Israel Folau, I hope he proves me wrong. I just hope that the brains trust at the Waratahs have thought things through to keep the FANS on all levels believing!

There are plenty of league players who have represented the Wallabies, or gone very close to it, starting with as little experience as Folau. The fact the Folau's a celebrity doesn't mean he's as stupid as Lara Bingle. Neither is he any more stupid that any other league convert. Rugby's not the Masons, with arcane rules that can only be understood by gilded initiates. That's just self-important folderol.

 

[Orange Peeler]

Just goes to show that it is not only wives that do this

Dave Beat,

We might be better off letting our wives run the game at least we would know what we are getting.

 

[Richo]

The concern is how the Tahs are using Israel to promote the game in NSW when there is a very high chance of it all falling over. It will be worse than all of the failed overseas imports we had brought in over the years. I just can't believe what I'm seeing.

Whether Folau stays with the Waratahs probably doesn't matter much. As Lee pointed out, players come and go, especially imports from other codes. What matters is the value that can be extracted from them. I'm not sure who "all of the failed overseas imports" are exactly, but I think the Waratahs need to do a better job of leveraging popular players than they have in the recent past. The Super Rugby heyday for the Tahs, in terms of crowds, was during an era of league imports - Rogers, Tahu, Lote, etc. - that got the team attention outside the rugby faithful. What the Waratahs did poorly was turn those new fans into life-long ones. Hopefully some lessons have been learned and if Izzy can help turn around the abysmal attendance from last season, the Waratahs might be able to capitalise better in the long-term.

None of which is to say that the team shouldn't be investing in junior rugby and so on. Obviously that's a necessity. But in today's media-saturated world, getting cut-through and presence is just as important. Good organizations can chew gum and walk at the same time.

 

[Richo]

Some vision from the Hobart trial. Well, it's really just about Izzy Folau.

Just a glimpse, but that bloke really is a hell of an athlete.

 

[Orange Peeler]

There are plenty of league players who have represented the Wallabies, or gone very close to it, starting with as little experience as Folau. The fact the Folau's a celebrity doesn't mean he's as stupid as Lara Bingle. Neither is he any more stupid that any other league convert. Rugby's not the Masons, with arcane rules that can only be understood by gilded initiates. That's just self-important folderol.

Groucho,

I would be more comfortable with Izzy if he had at least one full season of 1st Grade Rugby under his belt. Currently his Rugby experience is only two months of preseason training.

Please remember that this is Super Rugby were results matter

 

[Druid]

Greed - really, thats a piss poor excuse the powers to be may use.
a boy or girl at 6, 7, 8, 9, what is their NRL, AFL, FFA weekly pay packet - didly squat. They are creating an interest, they are creating fun, they are creating a colt following, and from the grass roots an interest and love of fun and a game is developing. Look at Auskick, my daughter came home with a backpack, a junior football, a waterbottle, a few stickers and posters, and then loved the 4 - 6 weeks of Auskick fun program

Looking at 2 choices, for an example;
In order for my boy - rugby, league, afl, and soccer last of all - but fun and his choice comes first.
Out west a dad may think, league, rugby, afl, and soccer - but fun and his choice comes first.
The work AFL puts into the juniors is having it jump from third into first place due to fun and kids choice comes first.

It's about Grass Roots, not the Old Curse of money - if it was look what we have splashed out in cash for Wendell, Lote, Rogers, Faloa.
Wendal started his rugby career in 2001 - that is 12 years ago, so the 10 - 14 years olds of the time are now 22 - 26 now. Did Wendall playing rugby influence their choice between rugby, and league, or was it what they were playing when they were 8, 9, 10. Who in the current crop of players went union instead of league because of the Del?

I am involved in a club out west, which has seen it's mini's (Under 6s - Under 9s), increase substantially in the last 4 years, without any Waratahs or Wallabies players visiting our club and without getting any money in funding from the senior bodies. To do this has taken an enormous amount of effort from a small number of dedicated volunteers along with the full backing of the club (involving some money needing to be spent).

The main issue is trying to find those volunteers out west when Rugby is well down the list on sports kids & parents talk about and are familiar with. Many of the new parents who are in our club do not have a Rugby background and hence are not going to be able to/be confident enough to coach, manage, promote it to the wider community etc. To start up a new club would be even harder and would require more work I would imagine.

The ARU only funds 2 development officers in the West (I believe the AFL has over 40 for the same area). Hence, the effort to expand Rugby in absence of Development officers must come from really dedicated volunteers which sadly are not nearly plentiful enough in the West to make the difference that is required, due to Rugby not being the sport they played as children. All in all there is no golden bullet which will dramatically improve the situation but I am hopefully that Rugby can still continue to grow in the West.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The ARU only funds 2 development officers in the West

I am pleasantly surprised that its 2.

 

[Dave Beat]

I am involved in a club out west, which has seen it's mini's (Under 6s - Under 9s), increase substantially in the last 4 years, without any Waratahs or Wallabies players visiting our club and without getting any money in funding from the senior bodies. To do this has taken an enormous amount of effort from a small number of dedicated volunteers along with the full backing of the club (involving some money needing to be spent).

The main issue is trying to find those volunteers out west when Rugby is well down the list on sports kids & parents talk about and are familiar with. Many of the new parents who are in our club do not have a Rugby background and hence are not going to be able to/be confident enough to coach, manage, promote it to the wider community etc. To start up a new club would be even harder and would require more work I would imagine.

The ARU only funds 2 development officers in the West (I believe the AFL has over 40 for the same area). Hence, the effort to expand Rugby in absence of Development officers must come from really dedicated volunteers which sadly are not nearly plentiful enough in the West to make the difference that is required, due to Rugby not being the sport they played as children. All in all there is no golden bullet which will dramatically improve the situation but I am hopefully that Rugby can still continue to grow in the West.

Congrats on your work and achievement.
A post like yours provides a great insight thank you.
The Waratahs have 35 players at their disposal to attend days, schools, and invest in junior rugby I hope they do it.
Out west is a big area, I reckon Parra or Penrith would get behind your efforts, the kids you coach and their parents would probably go and support their local SS club.

Keep it up.

 

[Orange Peeler]

Whether Folau stays with the Waratahs probably doesn't matter much. As Lee pointed out, players come and go, especially imports from other codes. What matters is the value that can be extracted from them. I'm not sure who "all of the failed overseas imports" are exactly, but I think the Waratahs need to do a better job of leveraging popular players than they have in the recent past. The Super Rugby heyday for the Tahs, in terms of crowds, was during an era of league imports - Rogers, Tahu, Lote, etc. - that got the team attention outside the rugby faithful. What the Waratahs did poorly was turn those new fans into life-long ones. Hopefully some lessons have been learned and if Izzy can help turn around the abysmal attendance from last season, the Waratahs might be able to capitalise better in the long-term.

None of which is to say that the team shouldn't be investing in junior rugby and so on. Obviously that's a necessity. But in today's media-saturated world, getting cut-through and presence is just as important. Good organizations can chew gum and walk at the same time.

Richo,

There lies the problem, we let anyone have a Waratahs jersey.
The value of the hard earn't Waratah jersey has been lost and the culture eroded.
Management only care about profits and appear to have no idea on how to run the game at all levels.
The fans see all this and wonder why they should spend their money on memberships.
I pray and hope that Michael Cheika can bring the Franchise together and back on track.
The fans will come back when the Tahs are the dominating team we expect them to be.

 

[ShtinaTina]

It'd be hard to fall out with a captain when you haven't got on yet, unless they mean Cutch.

 

[Quick Hands]

What are they supposed to do, wave a magic wand and create junior clubs, with all the volunteers that are needed to support them?

What they're supposed to do is have a plan to expand the game.

That would include the ARU starting up clubs in areas where no clubs currently exist. In the early years they would need NSWRU/ARU support, but after that they would be run the same way that all the junior league clubs are run in western Sydney and junior rugby clubs are run everywhere - by the parents and other volunteers. People in western Sydney volunteer just like everyone else, but at the moment junior rugby is so far behind league there that it requires start up from above.

Starting up clubs might only involve 6s-9s as a first step and then progress from there. No-one said it would be easy, but if the ARU/NSWRU don't start the things off they are neglecting a large slice of the population of Sydney.

 

[TOCC]

Richo,

There lies the problem, we let anyone have a Waratahs jersey.
The value of the hard earn't Waratah jersey has been lost and the culture eroded.

Oh please, armchair critics don't realize how hard professional players actually train these days...

If this is aimed at Tuqiri, Sailor or even Folau.. Its a bit of a laugh considering all 3 were automatic test selections in rugby league prior to switching.. Hardly just "anyone" pulled off the street.

 

[Quick Hands]

I am involved in a club out west, which has seen it's mini's (Under 6s - Under 9s), increase substantially in the last 4 years, without any Waratahs or Wallabies players visiting our club and without getting any money in funding from the senior bodies. To do this has taken an enormous amount of effort from a small number of dedicated volunteers along with the full backing of the club (involving some money needing to be spent).

The main issue is trying to find those volunteers out west when Rugby is well down the list on sports kids & parents talk about and are familiar with. Many of the new parents who are in our club do not have a Rugby background and hence are not going to be able to/be confident enough to coach, manage, promote it to the wider community etc. To start up a new club would be even harder and would require more work I would imagine.

The ARU only funds 2 development officers in the West (I believe the AFL has over 40 for the same area). Hence, the effort to expand Rugby in absence of Development officers must come from really dedicated volunteers which sadly are not nearly plentiful enough in the West to make the difference that is required, due to Rugby not being the sport they played as children. All in all there is no golden bullet which will dramatically improve the situation but I am hopefully that Rugby can still continue to grow in the West.

Keep up the fight. I know how hard it is to get volunteers in an area where rugby is strong. I don't pretend to know how hard it is in non-rugby areas, but I can imagine.

In my view ARU/NSWRU need to help the existing junior clubs and also assist in starting new ones - even if they only have minis in their first few years. Boys play with their mates - if all their mates at school are playing with the junior league club around the corner and there's no junior rugby club reasonably close by, they'll naturally play league.

 

[James Buchanan]

It'd be hard to fall out with a captain when you haven't got on yet, unless they mean Cutch.

Following this logic it pretty much has to be Hodgo at the force. Of course, captains may be known internally already at the club(s) that haven't named them.

 

[Slim 293]

Following this logic it pretty much has to be Hodgo at the force. Of course, captains may be known internally already at the club(s) that haven't named them.

Hodgson has already officially been named captain of the Force.........

 

[Inside Shoulder]

There are plenty of league players who have represented the Wallabies, or gone very close to it, starting with as little experience as Folau. The fact the Folau's a celebrity doesn't mean he's as stupid as Lara Bingle. Neither is he any more stupid that any other league convert. Rugby's not the Masons, with arcane rules that can only be understood by gilded initiates. That's just self-important folderol.

I learnt a new word!

 

[Quick Hands]

Hodgson has already officially been named captain of the Force...

Well it wouldn't be a rugby season without some sort of chaos at the Force would it?

 

[James Buchanan]

Hodgson has already officially been named captain of the Force...

uhh... yes?