• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Waratahs 2016

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joeleee

Joeleee

Ted Fahey (11)
TOCC said:
What interests me the most out of this artficle is that of those who earned Wallaby selection, less then half players Australian Schoolboys..

I'd be interested to see the stat of the current team and compare that to the u20's tournament.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


I have found across a number of sports that schoolboy rep selections are pretty much universally terrible. I'm not certain of why but I have a few theories:

  • There's no real recourse for doing poorly. In rep teams, coaches tend to rotate anyway, so results don't matter a huge amount
  • Coaches/selectors tend to be quite familiar with one or two schools/competitions but know relatively little about others
  • Average players can be made to look very good by playing in dominant sides. Unlike in professional sports, where good players in bad teams would just move to a better team, it's not really practical at school
Having said that, I also think it's easier to be good at school without having much of what I would describe as "inner drive". At school (particularly private ones), you're already there, you're spoon fed all your training and sport is your social life. Once you leave school, you have to motivate yourself and some people can't make this step up. Also, in rugby at school, everyone trains 3-6 times per week, whereas once you leave, you're up against people training 6-12 times per week and some people can't make the adjustment.
Plus there's also obviously the early developer problem (likely to be prevalent in rugby), where players are good because they hit puberty at 12 and others haven't caught up.
 
Joeleee

Joeleee

Ted Fahey (11)
Jagman said:
Age grade representation also favours players with birthdays closer to but not before January 1st.
Click to expand...


Very true, apparently this effect means that professional players in most sports disproportionately have birthdays in the first quarter of the year. The mechanism is that, once you get picked in rep teams with better players, you learn more as a player and have a higher chance of success further down the track.
 
Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Age grade anything favours the kids who develop earlier - FACT.

Age grade rugby is further fisted by the fact that the spectrum of players is not nearly broad enough, because at the pointy end our competitions don't cover enough schools at once. Result: best kids in a small pool tend to get picked, and then walloped by kids from deeper pools.
 
topgun

topgun

Billy Sheehan (19)
Hawko said:
Opened up my beloved Waratah's thread to find it filled with discussions about schoolboys. Ugh!
Click to expand...

agreed. off topic.

How is the squad looking for next year? How many spots are left? do we still not have an outside centre? Can we please get Tepai Moeroa back?
 
Jagman

Jagman

Trevor Allan (34)
topgun said:
agreed. off topic.

How is the squad looking for next year? How many spots are left? do we still not have an outside centre? Can we please get Tepai Moeroa back?
Click to expand...


Squad looks something like:

1 Robinson, Ben
2 Polota-Nau, Tatafu
3 Ryan, Paddy
4 Skelton, Will
5 Mumm, Dean
6 Dennis, Dave
7 Hooper, Michael
8 Holloway, Jed
9 Phipps, Nick
10 Foley, Bernard
11 Kellaway, Andrew
12 Horne, Rob
13 Folau, Israel
14 Guildford, Zac (?)
15 Beale, Kurtley
16 Latu, Tolu
17 Tilse, Jeremy
18 Ta'avao, Angus
19 Lousi, Sam
20 Dempsey, Jack
21 Lucas, Matt (?)
22 Horwitz, David
23 Stewart, Jim
24 Roach, Hugh
25 Wilkin, Brad
26 Clunies-Ross, Henry
4-6 more spots depending on Lucas and Guildford

EPS
Sandell, Matt
Robertson, Tomas
Gordon, Jake
up to 2 more spots

Transition contracts (don't know what these are but seem to be for restricted to U20s)
Orr, Cameron
Hanigan, Ned
Jones, Harry
Deegan, Andrew
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
HJ,

Just further to before, the following players on current Super Rugby lists in Australian have come from a League SG Ball to U20s Background:

Lopeti Timani
Ben Meehan
Bryce Hegarty
Sam Lousi
Wycliff Palu
Taqele Naiyaravoro
Israel Folau
Ben Daley
Beau Robinson
Duncan Paia'aua
Sam Johnson
Chris Kuridrani
Karmichael Hunt
Lausii Taliauli
Joe Tomane
Jesse Mogg

Considering that's just current contract for 2015 that's a few.
 
gowaratahs

gowaratahs

Sydney Middleton (9)
Jagman said:
Squad looks something like:

1 Robinson, Ben
2 Polota-Nau, Tatafu
3 Ryan, Paddy
4 Skelton, Will
5 Mumm, Dean
6 Dennis, Dave
7 Hooper, Michael
8 Holloway, Jed
9 Phipps, Nick
10 Foley, Bernard
11 Kellaway, Andrew
12 Horne, Rob
13 Folau, Israel
14 Guildford, Zac (?)
15 Beale, Kurtley
16 Latu, Tolu
17 Tilse, Jeremy
18 Ta'avao, Angus
19 Lousi, Sam
20 Dempsey, Jack
21 Lucas, Matt (?)
22 Horwitz, David
23 Stewart, Jim
24 Roach, Hugh
25 Wilkin, Brad
26 Clunies-Ross, Henry
4-6 more spots depending on Lucas and Guildford

EPS
Sandell, Matt
Robertson, Tomas
Gordon, Jake
up to 2 more spots

Transition contracts (don't know what these are but seem to be for restricted to U20s)
Orr, Cameron
Hanigan, Ned
Jones, Harry
Deegan, Andrew
Click to expand...

I haven't seen/heard anything to suggest Latu, Tilse, Horwitz, Clunies-Ross, Lucas have been retained yet. Nor have I heard about Beale putting pen to paper, and from the above I'm pretty sure Wilkin is another EPS signing. Whether Guildford's about-face is a manager-driven ruse to try to squeeze him into the AB's future plans remains unclear as far as I've read, I think he'd actually be a good signing if he does honour the recent contract.

Beale should stay if he hasn't already signed, I'm hoping Latu does too. I like Lucas' passing game, though every time he ran at S15 level he seemed to get nailed - and we need a tackling scrumhalf if the other inside backs are weak defenders, though I don't see him troubling big loose forwards...

Interesting year ahead, should still be $$ in the war chest as we've handed over some prime cattle - we may yet be surprised with a big name signing.
 
topgun

topgun

Billy Sheehan (19)
Jagman said:
Squad looks something like:

1 Robinson, Ben
2 Polota-Nau, Tatafu
3 Ryan, Paddy
4 Skelton, Will
5 Mumm, Dean
6 Dennis, Dave
7 Hooper, Michael
8 Holloway, Jed
9 Phipps, Nick
10 Foley, Bernard
11 Kellaway, Andrew
12 Horne, Rob
13 Folau, Israel
14 Guildford, Zac (?)
15 Beale, Kurtley
Click to expand...


I really don't buy the Folau at 13 mantra. I think it's a passing thought that the press sunk their teeth into. Nor do I think Horne should return to 12, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I hope we can sign a big name for 13 before next year, if not we might see Jim Stewart in the deep end or maybe an NRC player in the even deeper end?(Henry Seavula! no he's just entertaining to watch...). Again, Tepai Moeroa would be a good ship to have in port...
 
fatprop

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
i would suggest something like this, Jim Stewart looks pretty good to me and if wing is an issue moving Horne doesn't make sense

1 Robinson, Ben
2 Polota-Nau, Tatafu
3 Ryan, Paddy
4 Skelton, Will
5 Mumm, Dean
6 Dennis, Dave
7 Hooper, Michael
8 Holloway, Jed
9 Phipps, Nick
10 Foley, Bernard
11 Kellaway, Andrew
12 Beale, Kurtley
13 Stewart, Jim
14 Horne, Rob
15 Folau, Israel

I would prefer to see excess $$ put into carrying a couple of extra players, two young props, and a mobile lineout type lock

We need quality fatcat, Mumm & THP replacements
 
Jagman

Jagman

Trevor Allan (34)
The interesting thing is that Sydney Uni/Stars have 5 of the waratahs front rowers. Only missing Robinson and Ta'avao (for now). They had Ryan in 2nd grade and now he's not in the Stars' lineup (maybe because he just played last weekend). They had Latu at LHP and have continued with that at the Stars now that Hanson is there. And Tom Robertson seems to have cruised ahead of all others. Could Robertson be the starting THP next year for the Tahs? Is Latu's switch to LHP a permanent one?

Folau has been quoted since he started playing rugby that he would eventually move to the centres. Chieka and Gibson (and perhaps last year McKenzie) said it too. I think Kellaway is a better player than Stewart and Horne already spends half the game at inside centre anyway. Harry Jones might be a bolter if he impresses in the NRC because of his left foot kicking and how badly that undid the Tahs in the semi final.
 
rugbysmartarse

rugbysmartarse

Alan Cameron (40)
Latu put up a picture of himself in an Airport departure lounge yesterday, saying Heathrow here I come. I can't find anything on this - is he going to a club for RWC cover? leaving the day after a stars game seems a weird time for a holiday?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top