Waratahs 2016
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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mst
Peter Johnson (47)
And we wonder why our team armed with zimmer frames cant keep up with the kiwis!
TSR
Mark Ella (57)
Fair point regarding Robertson getting game time. It is always a juggling act giving up and comers the game time the need. It is easier at prop than in most positions, because the starters generally only play 50 - 60.
With regards to Kepu's age - I would have thought it was more a case of Australian rugby getting the value of a player in his prime that we developed. Kepu was never playing better than last year and should have a good couple of years in him yet.
With regards to Kepu's age - I would have thought it was more a case of Australian rugby getting the value of a player in his prime that we developed. Kepu was never playing better than last year and should have a good couple of years in him yet.
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Nah, Kepu's a big investment approaching his peak years as a tight head.
Bugger me. On the one hand we whinge about oz rugby not having enough depth for 5 teams and then we whinge when we bring back one of our top players (potentially).
If you've got your heart set on Robertson getting more game time then sent either Tom or Sekope to the Force.
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If you've got your heart set on Robertson getting more game time then sent either Tom or Sekope to the Force.
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Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
And Tilse goes not Roberston.
Sio and Allaoatoa got juggled to were they are now. In regards to Sio he had qulaity players in front of him
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
If Kepu comes back he takes his chances. If he remains good enough and better than the next guy then he gets chosen. Other bloke rides the pine or fucks off to wherever until HE becomes top dog.
Very happy for him to come to the Reds
Very happy for him to come to the Reds
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Exhibit A for the prosecution: Palu.
I note in other news that Ollie Hoskins has gone offshore.
Let's all think about the lack of respect our tight five - and props in particular - get in this country for a moment.
Go on - I'll wait.
Palu is 3 and a half years older than Kepu and it's been a long time since he's produced his best, particularly at test level.
Kepu had his best season of test rugby in 2015 and THP generally reach their prime later than a number 8.
Is there really that much less respect from a salary point of view or is it just that outside of our core Wallaby players, the dollars drop away rapidly.
Where there is a difference is the non salary endorsements. The front rowers are never going to have the sort of public appeal that the Israel Folau's do. That is hardly a situation limited to Australia though and is the same across any sport in terms of glamour positions.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Both of you aren't wrong, but you aren't exactly right.
The cultural issue with front rowers in Australia is that "fat kid gets picked last" and that becomes a real issue moving into the senior ranks.
"Fat kid with ball skills" is much better of course, but the way its run at the moment, none of these guys get a real challenge until they come up against opposition from a deeper pool or superior scrum culture.
Good enough to get a shot overseas, at least. Wish that had fucking happened to Tilse years ago - as you say: couldn't crack the starting team.
How many chances was he given at the Farce? Australian Rugby has a navel-gazing approach when it comes to selection - incumbents get an inflated value because they don't fuck up, and hell we just except mediocrity anyway while we sit around waiting for some people to find a form streak.
The issue is, someone gets incumbency, and "good enough is good enough" when it comes to props, we tend to hang onto them and never give someone else a shot.
There is nowhere in Australia really interested in developing props, and it shows.
The cultural issue with front rowers in Australia is that "fat kid gets picked last" and that becomes a real issue moving into the senior ranks.
"Fat kid with ball skills" is much better of course, but the way its run at the moment, none of these guys get a real challenge until they come up against opposition from a deeper pool or superior scrum culture.
Good enough to get a shot overseas, at least. Wish that had fucking happened to Tilse years ago - as you say: couldn't crack the starting team.
How many chances was he given at the Farce? Australian Rugby has a navel-gazing approach when it comes to selection - incumbents get an inflated value because they don't fuck up, and hell we just except mediocrity anyway while we sit around waiting for some people to find a form streak.
The issue is, someone gets incumbency, and "good enough is good enough" when it comes to props, we tend to hang onto them and never give someone else a shot.
There is nowhere in Australia really interested in developing props, and it shows.
The reality is plenty of cases though is that elite front rowers didn't start there at a really young age. There are obviously some that do because their body shape was always like that and some others that always wanted to play their probably because their Dad was a front rower etc.
Hoskins has been signed by a team relegated from the English Premiership so he's certainly moving to a competition that is substantially inferior to Super Rugby. He has 26 caps for the Force.
Does the incumbency thing really change much for other positions? Coaches select the players they think are best and there is an inherent advantage working with someone you're familiar with and have put work into coaching.
It's difficult because giving everyone a fair crack at the highest levels available doesn't really mesh well with professional sport.
In terms of the Force, their front rowers have been one of their strengths in the last few years.
A mutterer
Chilla Wilson (44)
it's a pretty long bow to call kepu and straight up walk in that will push robertson out. tilse and ryan are far more likely to have sweaty palms.
i'd be happy for him to come back to the tahs and mentor roberston or any other reserve prop.
i'd be happy for him to come back to the tahs and mentor roberston or any other reserve prop.
After Kurtley Beale, I think Tom Robertson would be just about the next player the Waratahs will be most keen to re-sign for next season. He's become their first choice THP in a very short period of time and has huge potential as he is only 21.
Regardless of Kepu, they'll be very keen to lock him down. He's studying medicine at Sydney Uni so it's not like he's likely to look elsewhere for a starting spot if he loses his starting spot at the Tahs.
Regardless of Kepu, they'll be very keen to lock him down. He's studying medicine at Sydney Uni so it's not like he's likely to look elsewhere for a starting spot if he loses his starting spot at the Tahs.
The other challenge with identifying front rowers is natural growth and development.
The bloke who was prop in our 13As was a gun. Prodigy. But then he grew 3 feet, was skinny as a rake and ended up playing outside centre.
In a position so dependant on size and shape, tagging young props is fraught with disaster, as 'fat kids' often end up thin and athletic by the time they are 18.
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