Waratahs v Highlanders, semi-final, Saturday 27 June
- Thread starter Lindommer
- Start date
- Status
The Tahs all year were faced by a strong umbrella defence, which happens when you play as wide of the ruck as they do.
The two playmaker model is crucial in getting around this, as you need a ball-player at or around the 13 channel to feed the ball to your (normally unmarked) wider runners.
Last night the Tahs kept trying to get around the Clan umbrella, but were thwarted at the second pass because instead of the skilful Beale they were left with Carraro, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Folau who don't posses the ability to create space for their outside men.
One time early in the 1st half the ball went to Carraro in space out wide, and instead of releasing Folau and Taqele outside him he sort of lumbered forward, before popping a nothing pass to a forward inside him. It was symptomatic of the problems they faced all night.
What that did was increase the pressure on Foley and Phipps to throw long speculator passes instead of the usual plan of putting the ball through the hands. That's not Foley's game, he doesn't have the passing ability of Cooper. With Beale there he doesn't have to throw those passes.
.
Athilnaur
Arch Winning (36)
It was a good game for 55 odd minutes. Arguably the Tahs were lucky to be as close as they were, but they were and signs of the surge were there once Hooper's break and subsequent play ensued.
To address the elephant in the room, as soon as that decision happened my rugby sense was the game was borked. It had been on a knife edge and given the evident quality and fitness of the Highlanders and the huge chunk of remaining time Tahs would be a man down it turned the match.
For me the decision was a black and white one. Pottgeiter had strongly contributed to a tackle that stopped inches short. If his tackle was deemed an stiff arm to the head, it was a simple exercise in logic; yellow+penalty try. And from the first angle it did look bad. But on review I saw a tackle across the shoulders which had incidental glancing blow to a player who's head dropped in. My only criticism of Joubert was that I felt he and the tmo hadn't actually fully discussed. He's a technical ref and it was a technical decision. In my world it would have been arguably a penalty try, at best.
I accept, embrace, that modern rugby must find ways to minimise head injuries and in a practical world that means a zero tolerance approach. So I feel for Pottgeiter but accept these decisions will occur.
And rapt for the Highlanders too, what a great season after 2013.
Sent from my SGP512 using Tapatalk
To address the elephant in the room, as soon as that decision happened my rugby sense was the game was borked. It had been on a knife edge and given the evident quality and fitness of the Highlanders and the huge chunk of remaining time Tahs would be a man down it turned the match.
For me the decision was a black and white one. Pottgeiter had strongly contributed to a tackle that stopped inches short. If his tackle was deemed an stiff arm to the head, it was a simple exercise in logic; yellow+penalty try. And from the first angle it did look bad. But on review I saw a tackle across the shoulders which had incidental glancing blow to a player who's head dropped in. My only criticism of Joubert was that I felt he and the tmo hadn't actually fully discussed. He's a technical ref and it was a technical decision. In my world it would have been arguably a penalty try, at best.
I accept, embrace, that modern rugby must find ways to minimise head injuries and in a practical world that means a zero tolerance approach. So I feel for Pottgeiter but accept these decisions will occur.
And rapt for the Highlanders too, what a great season after 2013.
Sent from my SGP512 using Tapatalk
A mutterer
Chilla Wilson (44)
perhaps the errant service from the scrummy did little to help?
the other reason i suspect is that the tahs have only been drilled in one system and game plan. even if there was a second play maker last night, i doubt the outcome would have been substantially different, especially with the high kick tactics.
Wasn't behind the keyboards, but consumed as required.
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
I thought the decision on the penalty try was certainly a big one, seems it was correct, I don't think the swinging arm on head was intentional, I think or at least hope Ptgeiter was trying to knock ball loose. I suppose you then have to say if it was a penalty try it must be YC, though I would probably not awarded that. Still that why I keyboard and not whistle.
All in all I do like what Joseph said, here was a forward pack, no All Blacks, no Wallabies and no Springboks in there, they didn't do to bad did they?
In my opinion that makes result even better, it reminds us that in rugby the team is usually better than just the individuals.
All in all I do like what Joseph said, here was a forward pack, no All Blacks, no Wallabies and no Springboks in there, they didn't do to bad did they?
In my opinion that makes result even better, it reminds us that in rugby the team is usually better than just the individuals.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
It continues to surprise me how little comment or assessment there has been over what is, managerially speaking, a key consideration in the Tahs performance throughout 2015.
Namely: Cheika has for the entire pre-season period and right up until yesterday been appointed to do two highly demanding jobs with actual or potential conflicting priorities as to time invested and/or the nature of the two tasks to be performed.
To me it was clear that Cheika's high coaching intensity, very close engagement with every nuance of the Tahs' game planning, training, team motivation, individual player development etc was crucial to the Tahs' title win in 2014 - he's just that type of man, and that type of coach. And that MO is key to his type of succeeding.
This year, as dual Wallaby HC and Tahs HC he's of necessity had to split his time and attention to two very different tasks and goal sets. These certainly conflict in terms of time and mental focus, and they probably conflict in terms of attitudinal disposition at any one time. A national team development, national coaching team creation, selection, international opposition assessment etc etc process is a very different task to a State-based, S15-only one.
The always-known core risk of this dual role - which the likes of the NZRU would never contemplate - was that either one role would negatively affect the other or that, worse, both would end up being performed less than optimally. Cheika would have to be super-human for this known risk not to exist with neon lights on.
I thought that last night the Tahs looked like a team that was not truly well prepared for that game against that team, and that prior attention to crucial execution detail was lacking - that a line out can fail that badly and that consistently is as much a lack of intensive coaching application as it is one of player fault. And why hasn't the Tahs' kicking game improved in 2015 over 2014 as it needed to? This is not to critique the Tahs, rather I cannot help but conclude that somewhere, in a place we can't quite see, Chieka's coaching intensity and application has not in 2015 been to the same standards as were 2014's.
With this dual national and Super role, something somewhere had to give.
The other side of all this worries me even more: as at today, just 3 months from WC game 1, Cheika has still not assembled a complete and obviously well enough qualified pre RWC Wallaby coaching group. There is no kicking coach, there is no forwards and set piece coach. There is no mental skills coach (as the ABs have with the peerless Enoka). (And, as an aside, Larkham's 'attack' capabilities are looking like little more than mauling excellence coupled with a loose 'play what's in front of you' model for the backs that has not in total worked well for the Brums.)
This lack of a complete, top-notch national coaching group so very close to a RWC is unprecedented for a Tier 1 rugby nation even more so for one going into into a very tough RWC pool. I fear we will lack the raw talent to overcome its absence.
Much of the above arises from the dark cataclysm of the Patston-Beale affair and all that came from it. The complex consequences of all that led to that moment, and all that has derived from it, may be felt within the heartlands of Australian rugby for a very long time.
Namely: Cheika has for the entire pre-season period and right up until yesterday been appointed to do two highly demanding jobs with actual or potential conflicting priorities as to time invested and/or the nature of the two tasks to be performed.
To me it was clear that Cheika's high coaching intensity, very close engagement with every nuance of the Tahs' game planning, training, team motivation, individual player development etc was crucial to the Tahs' title win in 2014 - he's just that type of man, and that type of coach. And that MO is key to his type of succeeding.
This year, as dual Wallaby HC and Tahs HC he's of necessity had to split his time and attention to two very different tasks and goal sets. These certainly conflict in terms of time and mental focus, and they probably conflict in terms of attitudinal disposition at any one time. A national team development, national coaching team creation, selection, international opposition assessment etc etc process is a very different task to a State-based, S15-only one.
The always-known core risk of this dual role - which the likes of the NZRU would never contemplate - was that either one role would negatively affect the other or that, worse, both would end up being performed less than optimally. Cheika would have to be super-human for this known risk not to exist with neon lights on.
I thought that last night the Tahs looked like a team that was not truly well prepared for that game against that team, and that prior attention to crucial execution detail was lacking - that a line out can fail that badly and that consistently is as much a lack of intensive coaching application as it is one of player fault. And why hasn't the Tahs' kicking game improved in 2015 over 2014 as it needed to? This is not to critique the Tahs, rather I cannot help but conclude that somewhere, in a place we can't quite see, Chieka's coaching intensity and application has not in 2015 been to the same standards as were 2014's.
With this dual national and Super role, something somewhere had to give.
The other side of all this worries me even more: as at today, just 3 months from WC game 1, Cheika has still not assembled a complete and obviously well enough qualified pre RWC Wallaby coaching group. There is no kicking coach, there is no forwards and set piece coach. There is no mental skills coach (as the ABs have with the peerless Enoka). (And, as an aside, Larkham's 'attack' capabilities are looking like little more than mauling excellence coupled with a loose 'play what's in front of you' model for the backs that has not in total worked well for the Brums.)
This lack of a complete, top-notch national coaching group so very close to a RWC is unprecedented for a Tier 1 rugby nation even more so for one going into into a very tough RWC pool. I fear we will lack the raw talent to overcome its absence.
Much of the above arises from the dark cataclysm of the Patston-Beale affair and all that came from it. The complex consequences of all that led to that moment, and all that has derived from it, may be felt within the heartlands of Australian rugby for a very long time.
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Renata?
On the matter of when a player is tackled, I think you are spot on. However, had it been Ben Smith in that situation, he would have immediately released the ball, regained his feet, picked the ball up and continued on to score the try. Then there would have been no iisue at all to discuss. Buckman just needs to learn to do that and he'll be right in times to come.
Teh Other Dave
Alan Cameron (40)
Bingo. Horne's try was the perfect exploitation of this. Sadly that disappeared in the second half. Phipps's game also put Carraro and Foley under pressure; he was too slow and inaccurate last night, in contrast to Aaron Smith, who was very good.
The tahs also looked threatening when we hit our big units in the midfield at speed. The trouble in the second half is that they were being found flat-footed. Momentum = mass . velocity.
The game highlighted again the need for balance in a side.
20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you need two effective kicking options, the Tahs had one for this game with Beale out and Phipps a non kicking nine. Possibly Lance should have started. Or Volavola to 15 & Folau to 14
20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, but you need two effective kicking options, the Tahs had one for this game with Beale out and Phipps a non kicking nine. Possibly Lance should have started. Or Volavola to 15 & Folau to 14
Yeah agree totally FP. Look at what the Brumbies did with their winger (whose name escapes me). When Speight went down they passed over guys like Coleman and Ah-Wong for a squaddie who could do a specific job- shut down Savea in defence. And he did OK I reckon.
Beale's replacement needed to fulfill his role in the team. Carraro wasn't that guy, especially carrying a broken thumb. Volavola probably was, I'm not sure anyone else in the squad has high-level distribution skills. It may not have changed the result but in hindsight it was probably the call that needed to be made.
.
Beale's replacement needed to fulfill his role in the team. Carraro wasn't that guy, especially carrying a broken thumb. Volavola probably was, I'm not sure anyone else in the squad has high-level distribution skills. It may not have changed the result but in hindsight it was probably the call that needed to be made.
.
ChargerWA
Mark Loane (55)
One thing I like that Folau is bringing into his game is that he is hitting contact with more venom. When he started he would slide through gaps and if tackled just go to ground looking for a quick recycle.
Last night once he got his shoulders through he was working really hard to break free from the tackle and to keep going.
Last night once he got his shoulders through he was working really hard to break free from the tackle and to keep going.
Froggy
John Solomon (38)
Well done the clan, who had a clear plan for this game and executed it perfectly. I don't see how it was an upset, them having won the earlier encounter, but if that's what Kiwi supporters want to believe, that's fine.
The Tahs saved one of their worst games of the season for this one, with a diabolical line-out, atrocious kicking game, poor handling, and various team members deciding to make up for Beale's absence by missing the tackles he would normally miss. One of the worst games I have seen from Foley, apart from his goal kicking, and I am now even more of the opinion than I was that Cooper should be the Wallaby 10.
However, being a glass half full person, I was trying to find some positives, and while many will disagree, here I go
1) Horne had an absolute cracker both in attack and defence in a badly beaten team. Imo he was clearly the best Aus player of the 46 that played on the weekend, and must be in the staring 15 with Speight out.
2) The Tahs scrum was solid, gained a points victory over the clan scrum, and even held them when they were down to a 7 man scrum
3) Phipps passing was too erratic last night (unlike some I don't think it always is) but his effective energy around the park in both attack and defence is excellent. He managed to hassle Smith frequently and more effectively than I have seen any other 9 do in the S15 comp (no I'm not saying he's as good as Smith, who I believe is clearly the best 9 in the world)
4) I thought Latu was very good when he came on, and I believe has ended the season actually a better hooker than Taf. His indiscretions will probably cost him a WC berth, but at 22 is a great future wallaby.
I'm sure many will disagree, but that's fine. And for what it's worth, I think the Penalty try, YC was wrong, but didn't effect the outcome.
The Tahs saved one of their worst games of the season for this one, with a diabolical line-out, atrocious kicking game, poor handling, and various team members deciding to make up for Beale's absence by missing the tackles he would normally miss. One of the worst games I have seen from Foley, apart from his goal kicking, and I am now even more of the opinion than I was that Cooper should be the Wallaby 10.
However, being a glass half full person, I was trying to find some positives, and while many will disagree, here I go
1) Horne had an absolute cracker both in attack and defence in a badly beaten team. Imo he was clearly the best Aus player of the 46 that played on the weekend, and must be in the staring 15 with Speight out.
2) The Tahs scrum was solid, gained a points victory over the clan scrum, and even held them when they were down to a 7 man scrum
3) Phipps passing was too erratic last night (unlike some I don't think it always is) but his effective energy around the park in both attack and defence is excellent. He managed to hassle Smith frequently and more effectively than I have seen any other 9 do in the S15 comp (no I'm not saying he's as good as Smith, who I believe is clearly the best 9 in the world)
4) I thought Latu was very good when he came on, and I believe has ended the season actually a better hooker than Taf. His indiscretions will probably cost him a WC berth, but at 22 is a great future wallaby.
I'm sure many will disagree, but that's fine. And for what it's worth, I think the Penalty try, YC was wrong, but didn't effect the outcome.
- Status