Waratahs vs Force - Super Rugby R2 Sunday 23 February 2014

[Braveheart81]

Why do you say that Tahs had a better pre season? If it's true why isn't that a reason to point the finger at Foley?
He had some crap pre-seasons over here: and one when they were completely underdone IIRC because he caved to a player request for less work.

Interesting concept that a poor preparation has nothing to do with the coach.

Forcefield was referring to the fact that due to distance and funding, the Force struggle to arrange for anyone to come to Perth for a trial.

They either have to travel a lot to play trials against other Super Rugby teams or play internal games (which they did).

The Force's one trial against stronger opposition was against the Pampas XV which is the Argentinian side in the Pacific Nations Cup that the Super Rugby B teams are playing in (except the Rebels for some reason).

At the other end of the spectrum, the Waratahs played three trials against other Super Rugby teams without leaving NSW.

 

[Braveheart81]

I can't remember who raised it, but someone was questioning why all the Tahs kickoffs were to the 22 rather than being 10 metres and challenging for the ball.

Watching the replay last night, it seems like a very deliberate tactic to kick long and then wait for the kick downfield to give a counter attacking chance.

Each time the Tahs kicked off, there was a kick for touch within 1 or 2 phases and the Tahs either got the ball in play or had a quick lineout and were able to counter-attack. If the kick was out by enough to deny them a quick lineout then they had a lineout throw inside the opposition's half.

Whilst the Tahs never scored from one of these counter-attacks, several resulted in lots of metres from spreading the ball to the other side of the field. It certainly seemed that was the planned result from each kickoff.

 

[boyo]

So were Phipps.

My comment was about Mathewson, not Phipps, but if he falls into the same category so be it.

It demonstrates that the Hoff was relatively unconcerned about the scrum-feeds.

 

[Hawko]

I can't remember who raised it, but someone was questioning why all the Tahs kickoffs were to the 22 rather than being 10 metres and challenging for the ball.

Watching the replay last night, it seems like a very deliberate tactic to kick long and then wait for the kick downfield to give a counter attacking chance.

Each time the Tahs kicked off, there was a kick for touch within 1 or 2 phases and the Tahs either got the ball in play or had a quick lineout and were able to counter-attack. If the kick was out by enough to deny them a quick lineout then they had a lineout throw inside the opposition's half.

Whilst the Tahs never scored from one of these counter-attacks, several resulted in lots of metres from spreading the ball to the other side of the field. It certainly seemed that was the planned result from each kickoff.

It was me. You are probably right that it was planned but if so, then why didn't we kick it even deeper and drop it 10 metres in front of the goal line? Answer: Foley can't drop kick at restart height more than about 30 metres.

It will be interesting to see how the Tahs get over some of their structural deficiencies this year when we come up against better opponents - like this week.

 

[Braveheart81]

It was me. You are probably right that it was planned but if so, then why didn't we kick it even deeper and drop it 10 metres in front of the goal line? Answer: Foley can't drop kick at restart height more than about 30 metres.

My guess is that the really deep kick off generally results in a kick without any phase play (e.g. the kickoff that Alofa caught inside the 22 for the Tahs, passed to Foley and he kicked it).

If we're landing the kick off just inside the 22 then there is going to be a ruck formed and then all the players will be at that point of the ground when the kick is made. It gave us plenty of space to counter attack.

Realistically, which kickers can land a kick off 10m out from the try line that has had enough air that your chasers can get there to contest or make a tackle? I would guess almost no one.

 

[I like to watch]

I can't remember who raised it, but someone was questioning why all the Tahs kickoffs were to the 22 rather than being 10 metres and challenging for the ball.

Watching the replay last night, it seems like a very deliberate tactic to kick long and then wait for the kick downfield to give a counter attacking chance.

Each time the Tahs kicked off, there was a kick for touch within 1 or 2 phases and the Tahs either got the ball in play or had a quick lineout and were able to counter-attack. If the kick was out by enough to deny them a quick lineout then they had a lineout throw inside the opposition's half.

Whilst the Tahs never scored from one of these counter-attacks, several resulted in lots of metres from spreading the ball to the other side of the field. It certainly seemed that was the planned result from each kickoff.

It was almost like Cheika could predict what a Foley coached side would do,in particular circumstances!
Like stealing candy from a baby.....

 

[Richo]

I was at the Sharks-Bulls game in Round 1 and the skills on display were inferior to what the Tahs put together on Saturday. While good overall, the Sharks made a lot of errors and gave away a lot of foolish penalties. But you could see the quality of the team when things clicked. Same with the Waratahs match, IMO.

It will be very interesting to see what happens on Saturday.

 

[Blue]

I was at the Sharks-Bulls game in Round 1 .

Condolences.

 

[Hawko]

Realistically, which kickers can land a kick off 10m out from the try line that has had enough air that your chasers can get there to contest or make a tackle? I would guess almost no one.

We were playing the Force. Absolutely no danger of a quick run-back, they either had to kick it out or try and bash it up in the forwards. With lots of teams I would agree with your point, but with the Brumbies or the Force or any Saffer team except the Cheetahs, you know they'll just kick it back. So my point was that for that game, ten metres out and in the corner would close down their options and we would either get a lineout in better position or possession on half way with the whole field open for Izzy to run.

Wouldn't do it against the Reds, Rebels or NZ teams - there I would be targeting a contestable ball between the 22 and 10 metre lines.

BUT, you can't do the same thing every time otherwise the opposition will be ready, especially better opposition teams. There always needs to be variation so we don't become totally predictable.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I was at the Sharks-Bulls game in Round 1 and the skills on display were inferior to what the Tahs put together on Saturday. While good overall, the Sharks made a lot of errors and gave away a lot of foolish penalties. But you could see the quality of the team when things clicked. Same with the Waratahs match, IMO.

It will be very interesting to see what happens on Saturday.

What I found really encouraging is that it at times appeared that the Tahs decided that they were going to score and did just that. When they held the ball there just appeared to be a sense of inevitability about them. A mate that watched the game and is a Force fan comment yesterday that if the Tahs held onto the ball more the score could have got a whole lot uglier from a Force perspective.

 

[Hawko]

What I found really encouraging is that it at times appeared that the Tahs decided that they were going to score and did just that. When they held the ball there just appeared to be a sense of inevitability about them. A mate that watched the game and is a Force fan comment yesterday that if the Tahs held onto the ball more the score could have got a whole lot uglier from a Force perspective.

Agreed. Some time this season the Tahs will put 70 points on someone.

 

[A mutterer]

the ref?

 

[Quick Hands]

It was almost like Cheika could predict what a Foley coached side would do,in particular circumstances!

I think that many of us could make the same prediction.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It was almost like Cheika could predict what a Foley coached side would do,in particular circumstances!

I think that many of us could make the same prediction.

Yeah about 10-15 thousand Force fans will be able to do it on Saturday night.

 

[something]

i didnt watch the game and only saw the highlights....which were epic might i add. i went away from that thinking we (reds) were fucked next weekend. great to hear that they weren't all that good and force were just shit. yahoo. how good is izzy though! i feel a bit shit having toua as our 15 coming up against him. defensively at least.

 

[Quick Hands]

Forcefield was referring to the fact that due to distance and funding, the Force struggle to arrange for anyone to come to Perth for a trial.

They either have to travel a lot to play trials against other Super Rugby teams or play internal games (which they did).

The Force's one trial against stronger opposition was against the Pampas XV which is the Argentinian side in the Pacific Nations Cup that the Super Rugby B teams are playing in (except the Rebels for some reason).

I don't know what the solution is, if these indeed are the issues facing the Force.

Is a 10 day tour to SAF with an enlarged squad possible? Play games on Saturday, Wednesday and Saturday with the Wednesday game featuring Force reserves/enlarged squad members against similar opposition.

One thing is for certain: poor preparation = poor performance, no side can afford to start the season underdone - you're just giving your opposition a headstart.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Forcefield was referring to the fact that due to distance and funding, the Force struggle to arrange for anyone to come to Perth for a trial.

They either have to travel a lot to play trials against other Super Rugby teams or play internal games (which they did).

The Force's one trial against stronger opposition was against the Pampas XV which is the Argentinian side in the Pacific Nations Cup that the Super Rugby B teams are playing in (except the Rebels for some reason).

At the other end of the spectrum, the Waratahs played three trials against other Super Rugby teams without leaving NSW.

Also prevalent in the bits of NZ games i saw.
Its about time.
Also only long 22 drop outs - particularly with the number of penalties the Tahs and Wobblies give away.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

i didnt watch the game and only saw the highlights..which were epic might i add. i went away from that thinking we (reds) were fucked next weekend. great to hear that they weren't all that good and force were just shit. yahoo. how good is izzy though! i feel a bit shit having toua as our 15 coming up against him. defensively at least.

Really?
I thought the Reds were scratchy but gritty.
Not sure how gritty we were.

 

[something]

yeah scratchy but gritty... i just meant like, from looking at the highlights the tahs looked awesome. but good to know that there were some issues that weren't 'highlighted'

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The ponies seemed to play adequately (for round 1) against the Reds last Saturday night without having played a trial against a Super 15 team in the pre-season.

I do not accept that the "poor pre-season opponents in the trials" is a valid excuse for the Force underperforming on Sunday.