Western Force 2013

[Dave Beat]

Fair point, Moono. On reflection I think even I've been guilty of it. I would appeal to my fellow 'Tahs supporters to back off; cease and desist; it's really none of our business.

After all, we don't even know if the contract has been signed yet. If we keep ringing alarm bells they might end up sending him back.
.

I actually think Foley will do very well over there.
The Tahs have never won a tittle, I hope there are more swords still standing at the Tahs.
Foley, I think has been there for 5 years, I think moving on will beneficial for both parties.
I just hope the Force are able to recruit for him.

 

[Moono75]

Whilst I don't want to look at the situation through entirely rose coloured glasses, because there is still plenty of work required to turn the Force around, I was impressed with the positivity and sense of purpose that Foley projected at the press conference in Perth. It is what the Force has needed. Someone to come in and say here's the plan, here's where were going.....join me for the ride. And to say it with conviction.

I like the coaching structure being put in place with the overall rugby program and club dynamic overseen by Foley and a specialist attack coach (Head coach or whatever) to ensure that the Force play an exciting brand of rugby. Early days yet but I might just buy into this relaunch of the Force.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm the same Moono. I'm not expecting instant results, but I'd like to see a different game plan and an investment in young blokes to get us there. The footy we've played has been too negative and conservative. I'd rather see us lose having a crack than kicking the ball away and giving ourselves no chance. The JOC (James O'Connor) and Giteau days were all about heroic individual effort and the hope that they would break the game open. Now that those guys are gone a different plan is required, one based on a more team oriented approach. You look at what teams like the Cru have done over the years (where outside of Carter they haven't had a star studded backline) and think that there's more to it than just having superstar X factor players. It comes down to system and skill development across the squad. It's also a mind set.

I'm hoping that the low ebb that we find ourselves in now is seen as a starting point to getting back to playing a better brand of footy.

 

[I like to watch]

TBH, Everything you are hoping for next season are the very things that Foley demonstrated he is incapable of delivering.
Investment in young blokes.......ahhhh it's actually the reverse. he much prefers a journeyman that has played this level, over a young untested prospect.
The footy we've played has been too negative and conservative....That is the Foley style.
rather see then lose than kicking the ball away.....Foley's side managed to do both this year
It comes down to system and skill development across the squad. It's also a mind set.......Not evident in his role this year.

 

[Moono75]

Hornet, I agree. Positive attacking, entertaining rugby is needed, if we loose well as you say at least we had a crack. And if you are on the attack and asking questions of the defence well you can never say what might happen.

Guys like Gus Cottrell, Kyle Godwin, Salesi Manu, Nathan Charles, McCalman, Mafi, Cummins are all good young players to build a team around. They just need to be shaped into a hard unit with 1 or 2 star players (an inside centre) around them and we'll be on track. Winning a few games on the trot will help to break the negative mindset which I think sets in with constant loses.

 

[I like to watch]

... I was impressed with the positivity and sense of purpose that Foley projected at the press conference in Perth. It is what the Force has needed. Someone to come in and say here's the plan, here's where were going...join me for the ride. And to say it with conviction.

Every interview in the last 8 straight losses, he would say with conviction that they played well and there were plenty of positives.He always had a cunning plan.
Join me for the ride....think Thelma and Louise.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

TBH, Everything you are hoping for next season are the very things that Foley demonstrated he is incapable of delivering.
Investment in young blokes...ahhhh it's actually the reverse. he much prefers a journeyman that has played this level, over a young untested prospect.
The footy we've played has been too negative and conservative..That is the Foley style.
rather see then lose than kicking the ball away...Foley's side managed to do both this year
It comes down to system and skill development across the squad. It's also a mind set...Not evident in his role this year.

mate this is not just a Foley problem but a Tahs problem which has been going on for a lot longer than Foley has been around.

In reference to the development of players at the tahs, I dare say it but not much player development happens at the tah period. With a comp like the Shute Shield they almost expect players to be ready when they get to the tahs. and why not when you have that many people at you disposal.

Also brings players like elsom and Vickers in you would bet they would have been force upon him from above.

For me I’m not sold on the guy yet but ill give him next year and see where we are at the end of 2013.

Get off the guys back already he’s not your problem anymore so if you dislike him so much and the way he works you should be a very happy Watch right now.

 

[Moono75]

TBH, Everything you are hoping for next season are the very things that Foley demonstrated he is incapable of delivering.
Investment in young blokes...ahhhh it's actually the reverse. he much prefers a journeyman that has played this level, over a young untested prospect.
The footy we've played has been too negative and conservative..That is the Foley style.
rather see then lose than kicking the ball away...Foley's side managed to do both this year
It comes down to system and skill development across the squad. It's also a mind set...Not evident in his role this year.

Hence the new Force coaching structure. The new attack coach (head coach) will be charged with implementing an attacking style of rugby. TBH it cannot be any worse than Richard Graham. I have no problem with having some journeymen because it all comes down to the overall mix of your squad and its dynamic. Sport is littered with examples of journeymen who have come to a club and added that little missing piece that gets a team across the line. I am very much a believer in champion teams over a team of champions.

I also think the situation with Foley at the Tahs was muddied by political interference by their board. He has a clean slate with the Force unencumbered by any organisational baggage.

 

[ChargerWA]

Moono and TBH beat me to it. I was about to write a post about how much more upbeat I am feeling now that their is at least some positive action happening. I am actually starting to look forward to seeing what we can put together for next season.

In The West today, Foley was quoted as saying we still have 6 spots open to fill. Two of those will be the Marquee and extra foreign development player.

And I don't care what anyone says, the real reason we find ourselves in this situation is down to one key factor - Recruiting. When Mitchell left we phaffed around until Graham was appointed, who was too late to make any real key signing's. Then it turns out he is a shit recruiter anyway. Anyone who looked at the Force backline preseason this year and said we had the fire power to compete is a moron. That was Grahams opinion, to the extent we had a spot in the squad we didn't fill because he believed he had the guys there to get the job done. Even with Ripia there, our backline nothing more than a team of journeymen and also rans.

We now find ourselves in the situation were the board has cocked it up so badly, in that they took so long to recruit a coach we are going to struggle to find any quality backs to fix the problem, and in the interim our forward pack has gotten worse.

But the upside is that we now have someone specifically in charge of recruiting for the next 3 years. Hopefully the squad should only improve from here. I am also not concerned about the style of rugby Foley coaches, because Mulvihill as head coach will have more influence in this regard.

To sum up with an analogy, at least we now have someone at the helm of the ship. It will take time to see if he appoints the right deckhands and gets the ship moving forward, but that is better than being close-halued, pinned on a leeward shore.

 

[Braveheart81]

I disagree with the whole young player thing at the Tahs.

In 2012 we saw Foley and Kingston get extensive game time.

Lopeti Timani got plenty of opportunities as did Paddy Ryan.

Both our locks, Kane Douglas and Sitaleki Timani are still pretty young and developing.

Grayson Hart got opportunities at the end of the season.

I do agree that the EPS was used poorly with players like Nathan Trist who can be described as a journeyman on that list, but to say that the Tahs showed no faith in young players is a complete misnomer.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

I disagree with the whole young player thing at the Tahs.

In 2012 we saw Foley and Kingston get extensive game time.

Lopeti Timani got plenty of opportunities as did Paddy Ryan.

Both our locks, Kane Douglas and Sitaleki Timani are still pretty young and developing.

Grayson Hart got opportunities at the end of the season.

I do agree that the EPS was used poorly with players like Nathan Trist who can be described as a journeyman on that list, but to say that the Tahs showed no faith in young players is a complete misnomer.

i wasn’t so much taking a swipe at the waratahs development as player more saying that they don’t need to rely on developing them as much as some teams as a lot of the work is done for them at Shute shield level. Which is a testament to that comp.

 

[I like to watch]

I disagree with the whole young player thing at the Tahs.

In 2012 we saw Foley and Kingston get extensive game time.

Lopeti Timani got plenty of opportunities as did Paddy Ryan.

Both our locks, Kane Douglas and Sitaleki Timani are still pretty young and developing.

Grayson Hart got opportunities at the end of the season.

I do agree that the EPS was used poorly with players like Nathan Trist who can be described as a journeyman on that list, but to say that the Tahs showed no faith in young players is a complete misnomer.

Foley..debuted last year after captaining Oz 7's
Kingston. yep pay that
Paddy Ryan how many minutes did he play all season?
Lopeti Timani,,yep pay that
Sitaleki Timani first debuted in Super footy in 2008, 5 years ago
Kane Douglas debuted for the tahs in 2010, this is his 3rd year
Grayson Hart debuted for the Blues in 2009 4 seasons ago.
It's not really a hotbed of development and opportunity is it?
Do you think he would have brought Sam Lane into the team like the Reds did?

 

[en_force_er]

Foley..debuted last year after captaining Oz 7's
Kingston. yep pay that
Paddy Ryan how many minutes did he play all season?
Lopeti Timani,,yep pay that
Sitaleki Timani first debuted in Super footy in 2008, 5 years ago
Kane Douglas debuted for the tahs in 2010, this is his 3rd year
Grayson Hart debuted for the Blues in 2009 4 seasons ago.
It's not really a hotbed of development and opportunity is it?
Do you think he would have brought Sam Lane into the team like the Reds did?

Foley- After just one game you'd still count giving him a chance to coach Foley's merrit.
Paddy Ryan- He had a great preseason and a very disappointing early Super rugby season, he got better as the season went on and started getting game time once he earned it.

The rest I agree with other than the fact that I think he gave plenty of blokes a crack, perhaps one more than he needed to (in Grayson's case).

 

[Braveheart81]

Do you think he would have brought Sam Lane into the team like the Reds did?

Do you think Sam Lane would have played a minute of Super Rugby if Cooper, Lucas, Lance and Harris hadn't all been injured and Murphy had struggled?

 

[I like to watch]

Absolutely not, he was parachuted in from Manly having never met any of them. but the point is that Foley would NEVER have taken the punt on someone like him. He would have been more likely to get Matt Burke to make a comeback, or a 30 yo from the Shute Shield.
As is evidenced from the lack of debutantes for the Tahs in a year that the club was decimated by injuries.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't see how you can say that at all.

The reality is that the Waratahs generally have a pretty young team now. The reality is that most of the side is 26 or younger.

Most of the veterans in the squad were on contracts that began before Foley took over. Most of the veterans are leaving next season (Elsom, Vickerman, Halangahu, Mumm).

I just don't see how many options to pluck a 21 year old out of obscurity the Waratahs had. The reality is that you have contracted players and if they are fit then you play them.

 

[waratahjesus]

I like to watch - you need to look objectively at things your negativity has overtaken logic and fact and is borderlining on conspiracy ranting.

The tahs develop and nurture Plenty of talent, In a squad of 30 im not sure how many people yOu want sacked each year and 18 year olds inserted in their place, but squads are about balance.

For every Sam lane their is a radike Samo.

 

[wamberal]

The Force could have done a lot worse than pick up Ben Batger instead of Dave "The Snail" Harvey.

 

[GaffaCHinO]

For anyone interested in how the new stadium redevelopment is going.

http://www.dsr.wa.gov.au/perth-rectangular-stadium

 

[sudrugby]

Cameron Shepherd contract with the Northampton Saints has been cancelled due to his lack of physical guarantees!