Western Force 2017

[waiopehu oldboy]

Hopefully South African Rugby stand by their guns and oppose this. How weak from the ARU, how can any organisation just stand by and cut a team.

Ulrich posted this on the "Where to for Super Rugby?" Thread this morning:

"Asked if it was true that two South African teams (with everyone’s favourites for the chop being the Kings and the Cheetahs) would miss out, [SARU President Mark] Alexander said it would be “two or one”.

Full article here: http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/super-rugby-chop-undecided-20170325

Taking that & Pando's articles together, I'd say there's no chance of ARU retaining five teams, the only question in my mind is are we looking at Super XV v2.0 or another convoluted-format Super 16. Sad for whichever Australian side gets the bullet (& if it were up to me I'd fold the Rebels into the Brumbies).

 

[Rebels3]

Obviously I'm not a force fan by my user name, however this situation if true is just shit. I am firmly of the belief a strong Australian rugby involves the west. Happy to support any action against this if that's what's needed. The problem isn't the teams, it's the structures, the competition, the political games and the lack of engagement with the fans (lack of content, viewing times, clarity from governing body etc.).

Terrible situation if true

 

[p.Tah]

Hopefully South African Rugby stand by their guns and oppose this. How weak from the ARU, how can any organisation just stand by and cut a team.

This is what is wrong with the article and why it's so damaging.
It pisses off Force fans (and many Oz fans in general)
It infers the ARU have rolled over and SA are our saviours. What a load.
The ARU wouldn't have leaked this nor would the Saffas. There is only one side that would have tried this on. The same side who's journos have been writing recently that Australia has to drop a team. Jamie has plenty of NZ connections.

Just shows how devious and deceitful these negotiations have become.

I guess the NZRU have form with bugging devices, so maybe they're on the money. Who knows.

 

[Forcefield]

Does it really surprise? The ARU have run the game in Australia like a Mongolian clusterfuck for the last decade. Another shitty decision wouldn't exactly be ground breaking. At least if the Force are cut, we get to exit the sinking ship quickly and won't have to put up with another decade where things get worse and worse.

 

[Shaker]

Way i look at it right now is:

- They announce that they're cutting a team mid-season which in itself is idiotic. The offseason goes for like 6 months.
- Said team no longer has anything to play for besides players chasing contracts
- Teams fans decide not to show up anymore, Governing body uses that to point out why they were cut.

What a sad state of affairs. If it happens, ill feel horrible for the people i know who work within the organization. Massive kick in the guts for them.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

"Devious and deceitful"? Really? NZRU are the only Union to have publicly stated their position. I'll give ARU the benefit of the doubt as to whether they actually HAVE a position & it's fairly obvious SARU don't (or at least didn't going into the London confab).

For every NZ Hurld or stuff.co.nz article saying an Oz team should be cut I'm confident I can show you at least one from the SMH etc saying the exact same fuckin' thing so don't try making out it's SARU or NZRU shafting the Force or whomever, it's ARU's decision & they're the ones you should be holding to account.

As for Pando having NZ connections, of course he does, he's a rugby writer & pretty much 100% of the NZ non-broadcast media is at least partly Australian-owned.

 

[p.Tah]

"Devious and deceitful"? Really? NZRU are the only Union to have publicly stated their position. I'll give ARU the benefit of the doubt as to whether they actually HAVE a position & it's fairly obvious SARU don't (or at least didn't going into the London confab).

Yes it is comspiratory stuff, I'm just really pissed with SANZAAR.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^^^ of which ARU is 25% (& im not sure Argentina even gets a vote when it comes to Super Rugby) & holds veto power.............

 

[GaffaCHinO]

RugbyWA and the Road Safety Western Force would like to issue the following statement;

Under no circumstances do we believe today’s speculation around the future of the Road Safety Western Force to be true. Two and half weeks ago, through a national phone link-up all clubs were told that the ARU through the governing body, SANZAAR was investigating a number of issues and those issues had to be resolved prior to a decision being made to reduce any of the Australian franchises.

There has been no further contact from the Australian Rugby Union to any of the Western Force players or staff, so at this time there is no further comment on the matter until substantiated facts are put forward.

Until then the organisation will be business as per usual, with the team taking on the Blues in Auckland this Saturday and the launch of the Own the Force share applications this Thursday

https://www.westernforce.com.au/article/road-safety-western-force-statement

 

[D-Box]

If we are talking conspiracy it is amazing how the unsubstantiated news re the Force come out within a week of the Own the Force prospectus. It is almost like someone is trying to make sure the Force can't present an argument to say look at all this money we have just had come in.

Sent from my HTC_0PJA10 using Tapatalk

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

If we are talking conspiracy it is amazing how the unsubstantiated news re the Force come out within a week of the Own the Force prospectus. It is almost like someone is trying to make sure the Force can't present an argument to say look at all this money we have just had come in.

Sent from my HTC_0PJA10 using Tapatalk

Yes, if you were a cynic (who me?) you'd say that there there was someone behind that wouldn't you. But only if you were a cynic.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Meanwhile, at Western Force HQ..

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Yes it is comspiratory stuff, I'm just really pissed with SANZAAR.

OK, here's my conspiracy theory:

ARU have said they'll cut a team but only if SARU cut two & are desperately hoping that (a) SARU don't have the balls to drop two & (b) NZRU's Plan B is a 3 x 6 comp (Plan A being 3 x 5) 'cos Super 16 doesn't make much more sense to them than Super 18. In other words, they're bluffing & hoping one or both of SARU & NZRU fold. Not a strong strategy IMO but time will tell.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Given success in growing WA pathways with from memory 10 or 11 of current Force squad representing local WA developed products, and the fact it is one key market NRL don't have a presence (which 100% believe would change if Force was to fold) I just can't make any sense from long term perspective to get rid of the Force given damage would to do rugby's growth in that state.

I hope common sense prevails and agree with Rebels comments......

 

[ChargerWA]

Be worth a sneaky $10 on the Force this weekend.

I had a detailed text exchange with a mate and fellow Force fan on the weekend about the prospectus. I came to the conclusion through much discussion that if I do buy a share, I 95% expect it to be a lost $1000 within 3 years. But I'm still leaning more towards buying a share than not.

In the prospectus the point is clearly made, the only thing that could save the Force long term would be on field success. But the truth is that Rugby is too fringe of a sport in Australia and more so the West to turn it around in 3 years.

The real knife in the heart of 5 super teams for Australia is NZ. We are faced with an opponent whose success is unprecedented. Does a nation, in any other sport, dominate a sport so thoroughly without a numerical advantage of player pool like NZ do with Rugby? We quite simply are being overwhelmed by a vastly superior opponent. The long term damage of being uncompetitive is telling on the popularity of the game in this country and the flow on effect is that we are on a downhill slide to becoming a tier 2 nation.

As AFL becomes more entrenched in the private school system the slide will become more pronounced. The ARU squandered our chance of building a robust rugby base to build from after the success of the early 2000's. If the figures thrown around on the Rugby report card (ha, report card, cos they're school teachers, I just got it) of a 68% decline in Rugby participation since 2003 is correct, we are really screwed. We could lose a whole generation of supporters.

So if the Force was to go would I quit watching Rugby. No. I'd support all of the other Aussie teams and the Wallabies. I hope this article is bullshit, but if it's not I'm not that surprised either. It's more a matter of when and not if due to the current state of the game in this country that a franchise will go. Though I don't think it should be the Force, a Rebels/Brumbies merger makes more sense. But recognise that's a biased point of view and a compelling argument could be made to get rid of the Force as well.

 

[swingpass]

It's more a matter of when and not if due to the current state of the game in this country that a franchise will go. Though I don't think it should be the Force, a Rebels/Brumbies merger makes more sense. But recognise that's a biased point of view and a compelling argument could be made to get rid of the Force as well.

IMO getting rid of the Force is the worst option of the potential scenarios. From both a business and Rugby perspective to keep a national footprint and because of its development, Rugby should stay in WA. I hope the Rebels stay because i like (well not at the moment !) going to see the game locally but for me the least worst solution is a Brumbies /Rebels merger. i cant see that happening however.

 

[amirite]

IMO getting rid of the Force is the worst option of the potential scenarios. From both a business and Rugby perspective to keep a national footprint and because of its development, Rugby should stay in WA. I hope the Rebels stay because i like (well not at the moment !) going to see the game locally but for me the least worst solution is a Brumbies /Rebels merger. i cant see that happening however.

The Force have merit, that is not in question, but whilst the Brumbies/Rebels merger keeps the 'national footprint' the most intact it's the messiest option we could hope for.

It could work by some measures but when fans are crying out that the league is confusing as fuck, why would we make it confusing-er?

 

[Moono75]

So IF the ARU follow through and decide to cut the Force, rugby simply becomes a quaint game played by a select few on the East Coast of Australia.

Have some bloody vision ARU, there is a whole other side to the island continent that is Australia. We don't just exist over here to send our GST revenue across East!

 

[Jon]

If the ARU cut the force it is a massive betrayal of fans of the sport in WA. and very potentially a death stroke to union in WA as well.

Do you really expect the gifted premier grade players to remain there if they have no local S.R club to aspire to? This will also undoubtedly mean that the Spirit (the current NRC champions) will fade away until they are canned as well.

The ARU have a mandate to grow the game in Australia. Shutting down a team will mean that immediately, Australian players will go offshore at a national level as the ARU tries and fails to redistribute all the currently contracted players amongst the other teams who still only have a finite number of spots allowed in their squads. In the long term, players will continue to go offshore before they are picked up by a S.R team because there will be less opportunities for them to earn a living playing rugby. It is counter productive to the main reason the ARU exists.

This will result in the wallabies never being as strong as they could be.

(Brock James [among others] anyone). The reason that we are having the issues we have at the moment is because on two recent occasions the ARU have parachuted a team into a region that doesn't have clear development pathways to become a professional rugby player at an elite level. After 11 years the Spirit are just now reaping the benefits of having this pathway into professional or pro-am rugby. It is inevitable that this will only benefit the force and the other 4 teams in the long run. It takes time for player development and production to happen. There just isn't a massive appearance of talent when a team arrives.

We are as usual not addressing the correct issues.
We will continue to be behind the Kiwis (for a start) as they have literally had a generation head start of sustained development, governed at a national level. the ARU and all state bodies need to take a long term, bottom up approach to both player and wallaby development. Removing the force (or even merging the brumbies and rebels/ removing the rebels) is only going to be counter productive to this.

At a national level the ARU also cannot complain about the force financials when they are continuing to provide financial assistance to a privately owned team/company. Especially seeing as RWA chose to lose money before they asked the ARU for assistance - for which they were essentially blackmailed into giving up their IP when this had never been requested (demanded) (and still hasn't for the rebels) during past bailouts that have been given to the other franchises.


Back to Super Rugby overall.
The competition format is what needs to be addressed. the 18 teams should remain in a 3 conference system. This would just mean that South African are not guaranteed their finals spots. Which quite frankly is tough luck to them. They cannot hold three other rugby nations hostage because they want to have teams in the finals. Especially when they they have teams like the Lions make one of the stupidest decisions ever seen in rugby when they get there.

 

[farva]

Ive been a Force member since day one. I flew over from Adelaide for their first game against the Brumbies. A good mate (Brumbies fan) and I tried to get to each Brumbies v Force fixture until he had a kid and I moved overseas. I have subscriptions to rugby pass just to watch the Force matches. I have jerseys, hats, etc all over the place at home.
If the Force go I will be lost to super rugby. I might watch it t a pub but I wont be going to games, buying anything or going out of my way for Super rugby.