What is wrong with the Tahs

[Gnostic]

My points about Zavos undermining his own points, which are very valid regarding Kearns and Kafers conflicts of interest, has been proved by the subsequent responses shown here as the debate has got lost down those areas I predicted.

I wonder if these tings are done on purpose as the journalist can say to the RU I had to report it but I buried the details and directed the debate away and he will say to the fans "I am a factual reporter with no fear or favour and hold up disclosures of this sort.

 

[RedsHappy]

We can poke fun at SZ's poor writing and all, but the fact is that in this article he's displaying a directness and transparency over previously unrevealed relationships and implied bias risk that's all too rare in the 'mates and networked' world of Australian rugby and that stands as one of the components explaining why in general it's a badly managed, introverted code in this country.

SZ: What I found more troubling than what Kearns and Kafer had to say is that they are actually on the Waratahs’ Rugby Advisory Committee. This seems to be a formal part of the Waratahs franchise.

The Sunday Telegraph ‘revealed’ that they have had three meetings of ‘frank and open assessment sessions’ in the last six months on what is happening with the Waratahs.

Troubling? Because as broadcasters they should really disclose the appointment (even though it is unpaid) when they talk about the Waratahs on the Rugby Club and on the excellent Fox Sports rugby broadcasts.

For an ancient journalist like myself, there is an obvious conflict of interest of any broadcaster who has a sort of official connection with an organisation involved in running a franchise that he comments about.

He's 100% right. It's ludicrous that neither Kafer nor Kearns have hitherto revealed these 'advisory' roles at the Tahs and it's obvious these roles (a) should be known to Fox viewers and (b) ideally, as supposedly independent commentators, they should not be commentating on Tahs matches if they chose to be intimately involved with Tahs' management and coaching practices. That they could not see this conflict for themselves, indicts their objectivity and professional judgement. It also reflects poorly on Fox's professional standards if they permit these types of semi-secret individual franchise engagements - paid or unpaid - by their commenting panel.

Neither of these two commentators' outputs re the Tahs can be held reliable and objective from now on (not that I and others have not wondered why this panel's critique of the Tahs' play has often seemed so much milder than deserved).

The other issue that arises is WTF has this Rugby Advisory Committee being doing all these years? Is this another cunning innovation at co-optation-to-avoid-genuine-change a la 2011's Fan Forum? The Tahs' management seem expert at 'reviews' and 'action plans' and 'forums' that cause the illusion of self-examination, but that lead down only Moore Park garden paths.

 

[Braveheart81]

I agree that it should be made public that Kafer and Kearns have an unpaid advisory role with the Waratahs.

I disagree however that they shouldn't be allowed to commentate the Waratahs in future.

People are acting as if commentary bias, whether real or perceived has an affect on the outcome of the game.

All the commentators are bias to varying degrees towards their favourite team(s) whether they still have an active role with that side or not.

 

[fatprop]

We can poke fun at SZ's poor writing and all, but the fact is that in this article he's displaying a directness and transparency over previously unrevealed relationships and implied bias risk that's all too rare in the 'mates and networked' world of Australian rugby and that stands as one of the components explaining why in general it's a badly managed, introverted code in this country.



He's 100% right. It's ludicrous that neither Kafer nor Kearns have hitherto revealed these 'advisory' roles at the Tahs and it's obvious these roles (a) should be known to Fox viewers and (b) ideally, as supposedly independent commentators, they should not be commentating on Tahs matches if they chose to be intimately involved with Tahs' management and coaching practices. That they could not see this conflict for themselves, indicts their objectivity and professional judgement. It also reflects poorly on Fox's professional standards if they permit these types of semi-secret individual franchise engagements - paid or unpaid - by their commenting panel.

Neither of these two commentators' outputs re the Tahs can be held reliable and objective from now on (not that I and others have not wondered why this panel's critique of the Tahs' play has often seemed so much milder than deserved).

The other issue that arises is WTF has this Rugby Advisory Committee being doing all these years? Is this another cunning innovation at co-optation-to-avoid-genuine-change a la 2011's Fan Forum? The Tahs' management seem expert at 'reviews' and 'action plans' and 'forums' that cause the illusion of self-examination, but that lead down only Moore Park garden paths.

I haven't seen any bias towards the Tahs from these guys so far

 

[Bullrush]

I couldn't stop the involuntary chuckle from this line:

Berrick Barnes is the last flyhalf standing. But his flighty play will have to improve (as it might in the well-coached Wallabies environment) if he is to stay in the Wallabies squad.

 

[Gnostic]

I haven't seen any bias towards the Tahs from these guys so far

By omission perhaps. By subtle support for the established management and coaching group which they are a part of even if peripherally.

As for Braveheart's - no problem with them commentating in the future, I too have no problem with them commentating on the games themselves, BUT they really cannot in good faith offer commentary on tactics, selection policy or management issues such as sacking the coach etc without declaring their interest in such first, as they have been having direct inputs into these areas, rather stealthly up to now and then it appears to me promoting their advice to the Tahs using their paid positions for a broadcaster.

Integrity and the perception of such is a fragile commodity as others have found out in the past.

 

[Richo]

Bloody hell. Now the Tahs problems extend to who commentates them. If I did their catering I'd be getting worried -- the wrath of the Internet is coming.

 

[barbarian]

Meh. Since when did Phil Kearns have any integrity as a commentator anyway? He's there to crack jokes about front rowers and complain about referees.

Commentators having interests in the teams they are calling is nothing new. Phil Gould works at Penrith and regularly calls their games, same with some of the ex-players (Joey johns etc.).

They should probably declare it at the start of the year but they only need to do it once, not at the start of every game. I don't think anyone really cares. I certainly don't.
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[fatprop]

Mate all I hear is a chorus of complaints about aimless kicking and slow play, not a fan club

 

[RugbyReg]

David Gallop is leaving the ARL/NRL. Sign him up Tahs.

 

[kiap]

David Gallop is leaving the ARL/NRL. Sign him up Tahs.

Was just about to post that. Despite some mungo detractors he's a very good sports administrator.

Or maybe get him into St Leonards as CEO to succeed JON. Sweep the cobwebs.

 

[Badger]

David Gallop is leaving the ARL/NRL. Sign him up Tahs.

He wouldn't have to move very far.

More likely to be at the ARU than at Tahs HQ though. With the likely shortfall in revenue from tickets sales, I doubt that Waratahs Rugby would want the added expense of paying out the current CEO's contract. Besides, he maybe out of the Tahs' budget range for a CEO.

 

[wamberal]

David Gallop is leaving the ARL/NRL. Sign him up Tahs.

Setting them up with a trojan horse, are you?

 

[RedsHappy]

Meh. Since when did Phil Kearns have any integrity as a commentator anyway? He's there to crack jokes about front rowers and complain about referees.

Commentators having interests in the teams they are calling is nothing new. Phil Gould works at Penrith and regularly calls their games, same with some of the ex-players (Joey johns etc.).

They should probably declare it at the start of the year but they only need to do it once, not at the start of every game. I don't think anyone really cares. I certainly don't.
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Delighted you have no care for this issue Barb, I am sure others would. And using league analogies - of all things - as mollifying examples as to 'so what' does not defeat the issue of standards of integrity in public sports commentating positions.

When you commence consulting to a particular rugby team - paid or unpaid no difference - you likely start to be taken into that team's inner sanctum on all manner of stuff regarding players, tactics, selections, etc - what else but this would a 'Rugby Advisory Committee' do? The relationships so made and the confidences so undertaken could potentially bias the integrity of subsequent public commentary or analysis, or cause a certain hesitance in public critique. To whom does your duty of care lie is the conflict - the team management with one hat, or to the public with another? This is precisely why, and with sound reason, financial journalists now must declare if they own shares in a company they are analysing.

[And to fp's argument that he's never noticed any Tahs bias from Kearns or Kafer, all I can say is that virtually every rugby mate of mine (and many are not Reds fans) thinks Kearnsey is actively biased to the Tahs in much of his commentary, as much by omission as commission.]

 

[Dumbledore]

So what isn't wrong with the Tahs?

 

[barbarian]

But RH let's not forget Kearns is also a former Waratah great himself. Surely this is a conflict of interest as well, and a far better explanation for his alleged 'bias' than any consultative role he may hold.

I would equate Kearns to Tim Horan, a QLD great who also has a fairly obvious bias towards his home state. I don't mind this at all, and I find it adds to the colour of the commentary. And surely Horan has some role at the Reds or the QRU in either a coaching or advisory capacity.

And Kafer has been sticking the boot into the Tahs fairly publicly all year. Who can forget his mock congratulations to the Tahs for being in the "16th year of their 3 year plan to win the Spuer Rugby title".

I think you have the mistaken impression that these 'colour commentators' should be impartial observors of proceedings. They ALL have skin in the game somewhere.
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[Braveheart81]

This is precisely why, and with sound reason, financial journalists now must declare if they own shares in a company they are analysing

This is completely different. Financial journalists can sway public opinion about various investments which can affect the price of shares. This is why they must declare their interests.

The Foxtel rugby commentators have no effect or control on the outcome of a match.

 

[RedsHappy]

I strongly disagree it's that different in terms of the right core principles of professional transparency, but as the contrasting viewpoints are now laid out here, I'll leave it at that.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Personally I find the relationship that guys like Kearns, Horan, Kafer and Cannon would have with Foley from their playing days a bigger issue really.

 

[Slim 293]

But RH let's not forget Kearns is also a former Waratah great himself. Surely this is a conflict of interest as well, and a far better explanation for his alleged 'bias' than any consultative role he may hold.

I would equate Kearns to Tim Horan, a QLD great who also has a fairly obvious bias towards his home state. I don't mind this at all, and I find it adds to the colour of the commentary. And surely Horan has some role at the Reds or the QRU in either a coaching or advisory capacity.

And Kafer has been sticking the boot into the Tahs fairly publicly all year. Who can forget his mock congratulations to the Tahs for being in the "16th year of their 3 year plan to win the Spuer Rugby title".

I think you have the mistaken impression that these 'colour commentators' should be impartial observors of proceedings. They ALL have skin in the game somewhere.
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Although I agree, I would probably equate Kearns to Greg Martin moreso... who makes some incredibly retarded, and quite often unprofessional statements in the heat of his Queensland love...