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Where to for Super Rugby?

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Jimmy_Crouch

Ken Catchpole (46)
Can't agree with this more,

I find it funny/frustrating that a Kiwi would support another kiwi team over there local Aussie side even if it was bad for there side in the conference system. As much as the conference system had it flaws, it meant a Canes fan should never have supported another Kiwi side against Aussie opposition etc. But they would rock up and support which ever Kiwi team was playing no matter what the impact it had on the side they truly supported.


I've just never understood that. I grew up in NSW but now live in Brisbane. I'm a Reds member who supports them every week apart from when they play the tahs. When it came to the NRC (effectively all new teams I supported Brisbane City).
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
There are lots of ideas around how to attract viewers, for example:
  • inter-city derbies that create tribalism (North v East v Western Sydney would bring plenty of rivalry);
  • a better broadcaster with a deal to show some prime-time games on FTA;
  • more local content (domestic only)

Yep but will the inter city rivalries excite people from outside Sydney, I only ask after reading the comments on here, so wonder if Queensland rugby people will care,I would but it seems not all would.
Better broadcasting would be great, all we need is a FTA channel to get interested (and pay)
 

hoggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
Also parallel comps will force the Kiwis living in Aus to actually pick a team. At the moment they have a competition in their city featuring NZ teams. They’ll go to live rugby regardless if NZ is in it or not. Might actually see more official reds supporters at the games now.

Exactly currently expat Kiwis support NZ rugby more than Aus they essentially just follow who they originally did back in NZ, separate competitions will over time assist in growth here, by growing domestic support.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
No - there will be teams from Queensland that will generate their own rivalries? Again, i don't get your point. I don't know nor care about the inter NZ rivalries?
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
No - there will be teams from Queensland that will generate their own rivalries? Again, i don't get your point. I don't know nor care about the inter NZ rivalries?

Yep, although I get right into Reds/Tahs thing, mates are all Reds supporters, so I will always keep that wherever I live.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Yep, although I get right into Reds/Tahs thing, mates are all Reds supporters, so I will always keep that wherever I live.

Yeah i mean it's good we just need 10 or more of those kinds of rivalries rather than, what, two? at most three.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Can't agree with this more,

I find it funny/frustrating that a Kiwi would support another kiwi team over there local Aussie side even if it was bad for there side in the conference system. As much as the conference system had it flaws, it meant a Canes fan should never have supported another Kiwi side against Aussie opposition etc. But they would rock up and support which ever Kiwi team was playing no matter what the impact it had on the side they truly supported.
This is also why there is currently more heat in the derbies in the Aus only comp, imo. Rightly or wrongly, nearly all Australian supporters would have been supporting whatever Australian side was coming up against a NZ side (especially coming off that period in 2016/2017). Makes it hard to hate them the next week when they play in a derby against whoever your favoured side is.
 

Dctarget

Tim Horan (67)
And vice versa, I never saw a post on here where anyone didn't support any Aus team against a kiwi team. I not sure why you find it funny, almost every case in here an Aussie would support any Australian team against a kiwi team ( and I not saying one or two that I know who want just anyone to beat Tahs;)) . Some kiwis would always want Crusaders or Blues to lose to anyone. Same as someone from NSW who lives in Qld will still support Tahs and quite often anyone playing Reds!
Yeah but we don’t live in NZ. The ex-pat is more patriotic than those who live at home. 10% of NZers live in Aus. Should be supporting our teams as well and will do that without a NZ team in their comp.
 

sunnyboys

Bob Loudon (25)
Qld closing borders to Greater Sydney today really throws SRAu into doubt. Force and Rebels will be playing there this weekend and the Tahs will be having their bye week there also.

Following week Reds are due to play Tahs in Sydney
 

sunnyboys

Bob Loudon (25)
Could make it difficult for Reds to play away in Sydney and then get home. Or to even play against teams that have been in the hot spot region
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Yeah but we don’t live in NZ. The ex-pat is more patriotic than those who live at home. 10% of NZers live in Aus. Should be supporting our teams as well and will do that without a NZ team in their comp.

No but plenty of NSW people live in Qld and support anyone but Qld. I got a son in law and nephew in NZ (both Auusies)who support Aus teams, and I expect them too, when you follow teams it should be for life!
 

Dan54

David Wilson (68)
Also parallel comps will force the Kiwis living in Aus to actually pick a team. At the moment they have a competition in their city featuring NZ teams. They’ll go to live rugby regardless if NZ is in it or not. Might actually see more official reds supporters at the games now.

I hope you are right, fella that works with me is a soccer fanatic, he was born here grew up in Macedonia, I actually see quite a few mates of his at a dinner couple of times a year, a few Europeans and South Americans, and although they are quite deeply involved in local soccer, they almost all support teams from overseas,not always from their homeland , and when I asked if they support Brisbane Roar or whoever, they basically said no, they didn't really get behind anyone in A league as the quality of soccer was 2nd rate, they just follow local club and then some were Arsenal, Liverpool etc, because they felt they were seeing the best players in that comp. This is by no means saying that everyone is the same, but with TV viewing like it is sometimes people just follow who they always did, one of reasons I said really you don't NZ game on tv before. I know plenty that watch Baseball etc from USA and don't watch Aus baseball, same with basketball, plenty of Aussie boys only watch NBA and not local stuff.
 

The Honey Badger

Jim Lenehan (48)
The Waratahs and Reds were originally state rep sides but haven't been state rep sides for ages. I think most people recognise that the Waratahs and Reds are the rugby equivalent of the NRL and AFL clubs.

Whether they're called NSW and QLD or Sydney and Brisbane makes no difference to me. You can still have other teams in 'their territory.' That actually builds local rivalry more than anything else IMO. It certainly worked for the A League bringing in new Sydney and Melbourne teams despite the fact Sydney FC and Melbourne Victory already existed. I think the Waratahs in particular could really benefit from having a cross town rival.

True,

I note that a team called the Waratah played in the Shute shield back in the 1800's - and at one point they were the the National team. So some weird history as to how they came to the state rep team.

But if we go down the NRC on Steroids route (my preferred option) then I think Tahs and Reds dont participate. Its Brisbane Sydney team/s with new names and colours.

The Tahs and Reds go back to their origin and exist as rep sides. Perhaps for a 1 off SOO that in time with promotion and love may start to rival what league has. BUT more-so to compete in any TT series , that would be short and sharp and after our NRC had played. Tahs and Reds would be selected rep sides selected on an origin basis with maybe 3 spots each for Aus players not from QLD or NSW origin.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
I note that a team called the Waratah played in the Shute shield back in the 1800's - and at one point they were the the National team. So some weird history as to how they came to the state rep team.
There were plenty of teams called the Waratahs, e.g. in Orange, Cootamundra, Junee …

Almost like being the Magpies - not such a big deal. But floral emblems were a rugby thing.

After the RFU's rose, other national and provincial unions also adopted flowers: thistle, cherry blossom, hibiscus, various orchids … or leaves: shamrocks, maple leaf, silver fern, etc.

Animal emblems were a bit of a racy option ;)
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Wonder when we are going to get update on plans for next year as at this point lots of stuff in media of different options but which is the One that is going to land...

Depends I guess on how flexible NZRU and whether they plan a dictatorship or partnership and hence whether we do something with them or go it alone and if the later is that the 8 team competition talked about in the media of current 5 sides plus others or is it this proposed national club championship or indeed both.

So many questions and very few answers at this point. Suppose better get the popcorn ready for the slow long ride ahead to watch as it plays out.
 

hoggy

Nev Cottrell (35)
The problem is the RA face some tough choices.

1. Go with a 10 team TT and then you have the issue of providing 5 competitive teams and a NZ market that's not really interested in 2 or 3 of those teams.

2. Go domestic, but how and how do we fund it, realistically this would require at least 1 new team at a minimum, but with the current finances how, and maybe more of an issue does the RA have the vision or drive to do this, especially with a history of short term cash grabs.

3.Go 8/9 team TT, but how does the RA then try to sell cutting a team, would the game even survive or allow that here.

A couple of things Twiggy, what is his long term view if GRR is still on the radar, then the RA could just pitch 4 teams for a TT, is this just for 2021, then really why all the fuss, according to SANZAAR (Marinos) its all back to normal come 2022.

Why hasn't closed conferences been looked at closer, surely this option has merit and can accommodate both parties, so why does this not appear A serious option then?
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
But if we go down the NRC on Steroids route (my preferred option) then I think Tahs and Reds dont participate. Its Brisbane Sydney team/s with new names and colours.

The Tahs and Reds go back to their origin and exist as rep sides. Perhaps for a 1 off SOO that in time with promotion and love may start to rival what league has. BUT more-so to compete in any TT series , that would be short and sharp and after our NRC had played. Tahs and Reds would be selected rep sides selected on an origin basis with maybe 3 spots each for Aus players not from QLD or NSW origin.


I think that could possibly work, but there are good arguments in favour of keeping the Waratahs and Reds as club (non rep) teams. Firstly, they are already set up that way with full time players, coaches and other staff, annual members etc. So that infrastructure is already there. And a new 8 team competition with just 3 new teams would probably have a better chance of success than an 8 team comp with 5 new teams. The tahs and reds are the two biggest domestic rugby brands in the country so it'd make sense to keep them as they are (even if you rebrand them as Sydney and Brisbane).
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
The problem is the RA face some tough choices.........

From my prospective one of the first issues rugby needs to deal with is learn from its past mistakes and the key one is how did we get here. Yes, COVID has exacerbated issues but the critical underlying problem that rugby has been unwilling to, and still is unwilling to deal with the realities of the situation.

In simple terms, when Australian TV came knocking and wanting to buy some rugby, the RA cupboard was bare. Not many others, if an, professional sport in Australia would have this issue.

I believe that being reliant on international markets for revenue is foolish and a big reason we are at this juncture. We have a tiny domestic market share and small revenue stream and base (noting sponsors get limited domestic exposure and some more relevant to external markets) as a direct result of not having a product to sell domestically, thus why rugby is not entrenched in the domestic sporting market and has a narrow appeal.

Club rugby is essential to underpin the game's future but has unfortunately been overly coveted and become detrimental in that we cling to amateurism for nothing more then historical reasons at the expense of creating a new future to build a professional domestic product that produces an income.

Many were willing to watch the NRC; it's was good competition that has evolved in its standards year on year and its appeal has grown. It was low cost and a viable concept. Why it keeps being discarded as an option eludes me. Yet the alternate conversation has the usual rugby excuses about lack of players, lowers standards and all the usual negative rhetoric about why Aussie rugby needs help and back to being depend on others and external markets; and again, not master of our own destiny. It also fascinates me the fixation we have with "state based this and that" and needing history. AFL supporters support teams outside of the suburb or state they reside which should serve as a good example that we should not be so fixated about geographic references and the Big Bash shows you can manufacture teams.

The tough choices; acknowledge and deal with the learned helplessness this game has, then realise that TT, GGR etc might provide an alternative revenue stream, but bums on seats that buy tickets and a product exclusively for the domestic market will provide a more stable and richer revenue stream for the game.


IMHO Aussie rugby is becoming analogous to the quintessential "dole bludger" as its colloquially referred to. It can't earn enough to support itself, always has a reason why it can't and continues to be both actively seek and be dependant on the charity of others.
 

Dctarget

Tim Horan (67)
Is this all for 2021? I don't expect there'll be a bubble by Feb/March next year...

High chance Vic can't reign it in, will Rebels even have a home let alone a position in a comp?
 
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