Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[chibimatty]

If I had to go for a six, they would be 1.Perth, 2.Tokyo, 3.Kansai or Kyushu, 4.Hong Kong, 5.South Korea, 6.Fiji.

I would certainly look at Adelaide, Hunter/Central Coast or North Queensland in the future. There's also only two hours difference between Fiji and Hawaii, though the difference between Perth and Hawaii is similar to that between us and South Africa. It would be unfortunate not to capitalise on the passionate support for rugby in Sri Lanka, though I'm not sure how much money they would bring to the table, though the same could be said for Fiji. If Fiji are also excluded for financial reasons, then I would go with three Japanese sides, and market it to the Japanese rugby public as almost a "Region of Origin" style rep tournament with and international flavour that is a preparation for the Japanese national team. If it's possible, the Kansai and Kyushu teams could try to turn their games into one-off "events" by playing games around the region; while with the Tokyo team I would play up on the university traditions a bit more and feature games at, or promoted by the Big 3.

Regarding Sri Lanka, maybe the first experiment should be to see if Colombo, Kandy and Galle would be able to contribute to the cricket Big Bash League first? I'm digressing admittedly.

 

[Bandar]

If I had to go for a six, they would be 1.Perth, 2.Tokyo, 3.Kansai or Kyushu, 4.Hong Kong, 5.South Korea, 6.Fiji.

I would certainly look at Adelaide, Hunter/Central Coast or North Queensland in the future. There's also only two hours difference between Fiji and Hawaii, though the difference between Perth and Hawaii is similar to that between us and South Africa. It would be unfortunate not to capitalise on the passionate support for rugby in Sri Lanka, though I'm not sure how much money they would bring to the table, though the same could be said for Fiji. If Fiji are also excluded for financial reasons, then I would go with three Japanese sides, and market it to the Japanese rugby public as almost a "Region of Origin" style rep tournament with and international flavour that is a preparation for the Japanese national team. If it's possible, the Kansai and Kyushu teams could try to turn their games into one-off "events" by playing games around the region; while with the Tokyo team I would play up on the university traditions a bit more and feature games at, or promoted by the Big 3.

Regarding Sri Lanka, maybe the first experiment should be to see if Colombo, Kandy and Galle would be able to contribute to the cricket Big Bash League first? I'm digressing admittedly.

Not sure about Fiji, Timezone is the issue - same for Sri Lanka. I’m thinking Hong Kong, Singapore, KL, Perth and 2 of Shanghai, Beijing or Seoul. Japan already has the Sunwolves and Top league.


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[BLR]

Not sure about Fiji, Timezone is the issue - same for Sri Lanka. I’m thinking Hong Kong, Singapore, KL, Perth and 2 of Shanghai, Beijing or Seoul. Japan already has the Sunwolves and Top league.


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I would say you are mostly right except the fact Osaka doesn't have a top level international side but Tokyo has would be a major point to consider. Tokyo is the easy entry into Japan but there is a whole load of pride and money floating around in Osaka ready to be snapped up. Hell, the Top League is all about bragging rights between company teams, can you imagine the bragging rights between Osaka + Tokyo. If I remember correctly Osaka views itself as quite a forward, out of the box thinking kind of city as opposed to the establishment in Tokyo and other more conservative parts of Japan. There would be multiple businessmen in Osaka wanting to be part of something that is in line with how they view their city itself, shaking things up and hopefully showing up Tokyo. Think Sydney & Melbourne with NRL & AFL in the past. This is just how I believe it could work from my views of Osaka as a city.

 

[chibimatty]

The Osakan players would run out of steam after an hour because they'd all be chain smokers.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

If I had to go for a six, they would be 1.Perth, 2.Tokyo, 3.Kansai or Kyushu, 4.Hong Kong, 5.South Korea, 6.Fiji.

I would certainly look at Adelaide, Hunter/Central Coast or North Queensland in the future. There's also only two hours difference between Fiji and Hawaii, though the difference between Perth and Hawaii is similar to that between us and South Africa. It would be unfortunate not to capitalise on the passionate support for rugby in Sri Lanka, though I'm not sure how much money they would bring to the table, though the same could be said for Fiji. If Fiji are also excluded for financial reasons, then I would go with three Japanese sides, and market it to the Japanese rugby public as almost a "Region of Origin" style rep tournament with and international flavour that is a preparation for the Japanese national team. If it's possible, the Kansai and Kyushu teams could try to turn their games into one-off "events" by playing games around the region; while with the Tokyo team I would play up on the university traditions a bit more and feature games at, or promoted by the Big 3.

Regarding Sri Lanka, maybe the first experiment should be to see if Colombo, Kandy and Galle would be able to contribute to the cricket Big Bash League first? I'm digressing admittedly.

This is the thing - commercially Japan has to be in the mix and would be commercially suicidal if they were not. Like you said hard to see Sri Lanka getting a gig, and even Fiji still has financial concerns for home game attendance (but from broadcast perspective could see the appeal).


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[kiap]

This is the thing - commercially Japan has to be in the mix

Yes, but not necessarily before 2020.

This comp has to get off the ground first, and dollars are not the initial hurdle.

The IPR is going to be a very different animal to Super Rugby. A mix of events across an afternoon – including men's and women's sevens – not just the main 80 minutes of traditional 15s rugby. Part of the package won't even be rugby.

And the rugby itself is not going to be Super standard – that's just the reality at start up. On the upside, though, it's appropriate to be that way when looking to grow the game in new places.

Doesn't mean there won't be high-level, highly paid marquee players (and other fully pro players) in every team, though. This will be needed to make the games work.

By my reckoning, perhaps ironically, the original Japanese Top League (as it was introduced) will be a model for the IPRC in this respect.

Certainly much more so than Super Rugby.

As time goes on, should the comp survive and grow, look for standards to improve as better player recruitment kicks in and teams are added.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yes, but not necessarily before 2020.

This comp has to get off the ground first, and dollars are not the initial hurdle.

The IPR is going to be a very different animal to Super Rugby. A mix of events across an afternoon – including men's and women's sevens – not just the main 80 minutes of traditional 15s rugby. Part of the package won't even be rugby.

And the rugby itself is not going to be Super standard – that's just the reality at start up. On the upside, though, it's appropriate to be that way when looking to grow the game in new places.

Doesn't mean there won't be high-level, highly paid marquee players (and other fully pro players) in every team, though. This will be needed to make the games work.

By my reckoning, perhaps ironically, the original Japanese Top League (as it was introduced) will be a model for the IPRC in this respect.

Certainly much more so than Super Rugby.

As time goes on, should the comp survive and grow, look for standards to improve as better player recruitment kicks in and teams are added.

But here is the thing if they want to get this off the ground and commercially successful then Japanese side has to be the go as they are big market, have proven successful following (Sun Wolves) and more established rugby nation. Without Japan in the mix I would have thought this competition putting itself much more financially at risk as start up competition. As other nations considered are unproven rugby markets for different reasons.

 

[Strewthcobber]

But here is the thing if they want to get this off the ground and commercially successful then Japanese side has to be the go as they are big market, have proven successful following (Sun Wolves) and more established rugby nation. Without Japan in the mix I would have thought this competition putting itself much more financially at risk as start up competition. As other nations considered are unproven rugby markets for different reasons.

Do you think the Top League/JRU are going to permit a rival for their players and fans if the comp is set up in the July-Nov window, when the Top League is currently played?

 

[kiap]

But here is the thing if they want to get this off the ground and commercially successful then Japanese side has to be the go as they are big market, have proven successful following (Sun Wolves) and more established rugby nation. Without Japan in the mix I would have thought this competition putting itself much more financially at risk as start up competition. As other nations considered are unproven rugby markets for different reasons.

Yeah, Japan is a big market … the United States is an even bigger market. Are either of those places big rugby-watching markets?

The answer is still no.

Yes, we want Japan. But, as per my previous post, dollars are not IPR's shortfall to kicking off - and that includes Yen.

For mine, a team like the Asia Pacific Dragons would be a higher priority than a new start-up team in Japan.

Japan has promising market potential, sure. But, as in most rugby-playing countries, there is a big difference in the appeal of matches involving the national team (especially, say, at a World Cup) and matches involving Club/Franchise/Company teams.

I've been to a couple of Top League matches in Japan. The attendances are better than our NRC … but not by a lot. Your average Tatsuya in the street wouldn't know anything about the Top League (or Super Rugby, for that matter). And in terms of playing standards, I'd back our NRC sides to do well against them.

Rugby in Japan caters to a niche market. Even more niche than Australia; at least Aussies tend to know the game exists and a little about how it is played. Also, btw, if you think the administration of the game is incompetent here, don't go to Japan.

This IPRC is going to take a lot of work, and not a little time, to get up to speed. It won't be an instant top-level comp. Even the NRC after four years is only starting to be put into decent shape.

Expectation from us fans needs to be realistic and grounded in knowing about rugby's current place in the region.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yeah, Japan is a big market … the United States is an even bigger market. Are either of those places big rugby-watching markets?

The answer is still no.

Yes, we want Japan. But, as per my previous post, dollars are not IPR's shortfall to kicking off - and that includes Yen.

For mine, a team like the Asia Pacific Dragons would be a higher priority than a new start-up team in Japan.

Japan has promising market potential, sure. But, as in most rugby-playing countries, there is a big difference in the appeal of matches involving the national team (especially, say, at a World Cup) and matches involving Club/Franchise/Company teams.

I've been to a couple of Top League matches in Japan. The attendances are better than our NRC … but not by a lot. Your average Tatsuya in the street wouldn't know anything about the Top League (or Super Rugby, for that matter). And in terms of playing standards, I'd back our NRC sides to do well against them.

Rugby in Japan caters to a niche market. Even more niche than Australia; at least Aussies tend to know the game exists and a little about how it is played. Also, btw, if you think the administration of the game is incompetent here, don't go to Japan.

This IPRC is going to take a lot of work, and not a little time, to get up to speed. It won't be an instant top-level comp. Even the NRC after four years is only starting to be put into decent shape.

Expectation from us fans needs to be realistic and grounded in knowing about rugby's current place in the region.

My point is Japan bigger niche rugby market than other Asian niche markets and sunwolves on field not much success but off field for crowds quite promising. Asia pacific dragons get a bigger home crowd than Japanese team I am not convinced. Difference with sunwolves vs ipr Japanese team is they would put marquees across teams to ensure more even teams across the competition.




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[kiap]

Asia pacific dragons get a bigger home crowd than Japanese team I am not convinced.

Point taken. What I'm saying, essentially, is an owner with experience on board in hosting invitational tournaments and contracting players to their already established team may hit the ground running first.

Japan is not the silver bullet … their admin isn't especially nimble and the Sunwolves are a bit lucky they're still around. But if another team like the Sunwolves want to join and get better at what they do, then great. They may also be constrained by Supe for a couple years, same as Oz sides.

 

[Boof1050]

Deadline for ARU decision today. Will be interesting to see what stalling tactics the monkey's in charge pull out today.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Point taken. What I'm saying, essentially, is an owner with experience on board in hosting invitational tournaments and contracting players to their already established team may hit the ground running first.

Japan is not the silver bullet … their admin isn't especially nimble and the Sunwolves are a bit lucky they're still around. But if another team like the Sunwolves want to join and get better at what they do, then great. They may also be constrained by Supe for a couple years, same as Oz sides.

The real difference I like with twiggys preso is as they control the teams they will unlike super rugby seek to ensure teams more balanced and hence competitive by provision and allocation of marquees. While needing more detail conceptually this sounds clever and gets around same scenario like sunwolves issue not being competitive in super rugby potentially. As uneven nature of teams in super rugby lot of what killed interest and they at least recognise the problem and proposing more direct intervention to minimise the risk of this happening.


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[WorkingClassRugger]

They've been in Sri Lankan recently meeting with the Sports Minister.

 

[TOCC]

Meetings in Sri Lanka, Hong Kong and Singapore according social media


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[TOCC]

Now Japan


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[BLR]

Ahhhh, this comp will never happen!

 

[brokendown]

slim thinks it will be below club rugby standard

 

[jimmydubs]

They've also been in KL no?

 

[BLR]

They've also been in KL no?

I believe so.