Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[dru]

I wouldn't be surprised if NZ weren't keen to try and get a team in there. Maybe like a heartland team or something like that, the next best 30 players from the NPC who didn't get a super rugby contract.

Depends what you mean by “NZ”. If it’s NZRU I’d be pleasantly, but very surprised.

 

[Slim 293]

I like the date window of February 2019 for 2 reasons!

1) Allows Perth Spirit to still compete in NRC.

2) If its in same window as super rugby and it's the roaring success I think it's going to be. It pretty much could allow for this competition to be merged in some way into the Super rugby competition as a new conference of some sort (Sunwolves to merge with their IPR Japanese counterparts in new IPR conference/Force back to Australia conference.

I know some of you are going to pull your hair out and say it's not going to happen but don't be surprised in 2025 if the IPR and Super Rugby competition merge.

I don't think it will be strong enough to merge with Super Rugby, but where I think it can be successful is as a tier below Super Rugby acting as another development/feeder pathway and possibly merging with the NRC............ although I don't know how the clubs will feel about that.
In saying that, maybe we could see one of these new teams promoted to Super Rugby if they become strong enough.

 

[kiap]

In saying that, maybe we could see one of these new teams promoted to Super Rugby if they become strong enough.

One, or perhaps even more than one.

The future of the 4+ months format spanning 4 continents' worth of clubs might not endure, even if the name "Super Rugby" does.

Should there be a time-zone consolidation under a new format, new teams can replace departing teams.

That's IF those teams have the strength, particularly off-field, to be competitive on-field.

 

[chibimatty]

New Zealand should stay out of the IPRC; let the Perth rugby community get behind it without splitting the fans.

 

[half]

Interesting reading the forum re those in favour and those not so in favour.

My take is it’s gotta be good for rugby especially in WA.

My gut tells me outside WA it will struggle, if for no other reason than we rugby folk, seem to ignore things outside what we want ie. Shute Shield teams not getting behind the NRC or it took a long time.

Australian sporting, history has shown that local domestic competitions work far better than Australia with other nations.

In addition the history of Australian sport viewing habits clearly shows when governing bodies are or have the perception of being poorly run and full of self-interest then people turn off. Rugby is currently rightly or wrongly prevised in this light and its hard to expand if the house id divided.

Today Football is in open civil war with three or four major groups and their crowds and ratings are in free fall. As were ours last year.

My issue from day one has been the lack of Australia sides, whether these come in later years is yet to be seen.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I don't think it will be strong enough to merge with Super Rugby, but where I think it can be successful is as a tier below Super Rugby acting as another development/feeder pathway and possibly merging with the NRC.... although I don't know how the clubs will feel about that.
In saying that, maybe we could see one of these new teams promoted to Super Rugby if they become strong enough.

What I'd like to see alongside this is potentially a return of an Australia A squad or even U20s playing fixtures against more Unions from the region. A possible merge with the NRC would be interesting as well. Sort of like a 2nd division to the IPRC for many of these nations. That would allow them to be actively involved and develop. Lots of opportunity for those brave enough to take them.

 

[RugbyReg]

What will a successful IPRC be?

I am gathering for many of the Force fans success is just an international competition that the ARU aren't involved in but a WA team is?

Is it about bringing 'home' some more Wallaby candidates?

Is it just getting more high quality rugby on tv?

Will it be producing high quality rugby?

To judge anything I guess an important starting point is working out what we are judging it on.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

What will a successful IPRC be?

I am gathering for many of the Force fans success is just an international competition that the ARU aren't involved in but a WA team is?

Is it about bringing 'home' some more Wallaby candidates?

Is it just getting more high quality rugby on tv?

Will it be producing high quality rugby?

To judge anything I guess an important starting point is working out what we are judging it on.

Well, first and foremost. Keeping WA engaged with the game. That's the primary objective from our perspective.

Second, develop a sustainable structure that fits more inline with our needs in regards to time zone issue and future markets.

Third, offer more opportunities to players within Australia to ply their trade. Increasing the overall opportunity within the game. Imagine in the future in the IPRC we have 5 or 6 domestic based squads plus say 5 or more spots filled in another say 10 teams within the IPRC structure.

 

[ForceFan]

A good opinion piece on TWF today from the head of RugbyWA:

"Me thinks a bunch of candidates vying for Pulver's spot may be wondering if he's going to leave them with a massive problem.

Considering their due diligence and risk analysis over the past 4 years has been nothing short of diabolical, hamfisted and amateurish.

So, let's hope they do read TWF as here is one blindingly obvious risk they will face:

Assume they tell Andrew: No Aussie players are eligible for Wallabies if they play IPRC. Except for Western Force.

Considering Andrew and fellow investors in Asia have deeper pockets than RA, perhaps Andrew could say to Aussie players " we have 5 teams outside the Western Force that need some quality players and coaches"

"We have average stadium attendances around 50,000 people, average viewing audience around 20 million people, so broadcasters getting bigger bang for their buck than in Super Rugby".

So, Messrs Folau, Foley, Beale, Genia, Korobeite, kuridrani, Kerevi, Speight etc. How about an extra Million per season to come and play for Beijing Dragons or Hong Kong Eagles ???

Chances in 2020 are our Force players will return from Rebels.

I wonder how the Tahs, Brumbies, Reds, Rebels will go against the Kiwis in 2020, how full will Allianz be? how many are watching Super Rugby as opposed to watching IPRC??

I feel for Pulver's successor, if RA do not embrace Andrew's vision it could spell the end of their dreams. History shows they lack experience in vision, planning and execution. Andrew's experience shows he has all of that expertise in spades. "

 

[Braveheart81]

Considering Andrew and fellow investors in Asia have deeper pockets than RA, perhaps Andrew could say to Aussie players " we have 5 teams outside the Western Force that need some quality players and coaches"

"We have average stadium attendances around 50,000 people, average viewing audience around 20 million people, so broadcasters getting bigger bang for their buck than in Super Rugby".

So, Messrs Folau, Foley, Beale, Genia, Korobeite, kuridrani, Kerevi, Speight etc. How about an extra Million per season to come and play for Beijing Dragons or Hong Kong Eagles ???

Let's assume that in our second season we have by far the most successful rugby competition in the world? Seems reasonable.

 

[Slim 293]

"We have average stadium attendances around 50,000 people, average viewing audience around 20 million people, so broadcasters getting bigger bang for their buck than in Super Rugby".

The offer is going straight to the spam folder right alongside the Nigerian prince.........

 

[barbarian]

Yeah some absolutely wild assumptions right there.

50k average attendance would mean it's the 2nd most popular competition across all sports globally.

I also disagree with the assessment that Twiggy and co have deeper pockets than the ARU. On the surface that may be true, but so far Twiggy has only committed $50m and the ARU's annual expenditure is about $120m.

 

[amirite]

I think this league is really a Top 14 competitor, attracting ageing Superstars who want paycheques in a league that won't destroy their bodies, and young people not good enough for Super rugby but better than club rugby (same goes for the Premiership in England). This will create fun and fast rugby that sits somewhere around NRC standard.

This is of course seperate from RugbyWA and Twiggy's goal, which is giving WA supporters, players, and administration a pathway. Ultimately though, the moment a WA local steps-up to be Super Rugby starter standard, I think we'd see them taking up contracts elsewhere. I don't yet know that they'd be paid more (That's TBC), but their likelihood of higher honours would be better.

 

[amirite]

Yeah some absolutely wild assumptions right there.

50k average attendance would mean it's the 2nd most popular competition across all sports globally.

I also disagree with the assessment that Twiggy and co have deeper pockets than the ARU. On the surface that may be true, but so far Twiggy has only committed $50m and the ARU's annual expenditure is about $120m.

Twiggy has more money undoubtedly, but people need to question what his liquid assets are, and how much of them he's willing to spend.

Throughout his commitment to rugby, Twiggy has thrown around a lot of time, effort, and numbers, but not too much actual cash.

 

[ForceFan]

Yeah some absolutely wild assumptions right there.

50k average attendance would mean it's the 2nd most popular competition across all sports globally.

I also disagree with the assessment that Twiggy and co have deeper pockets than the ARU. On the surface that may be true, but so far Twiggy has only committed $50m and the ARU's annual expenditure is about $120m.

Andrew Forrest has always talked about $100M - $150M to get the competition up and going and has stated that he expects it to be self-funding within 3 years. Clearly it will not be just Mindaroo's $$s getting this going as he is getting strong indications of support from around the region.

 

[ForceFan]

Twiggy has more money undoubtedly, but people need to question what his liquid assets are, and how much of them he's willing to spend.

Throughout his commitment to rugby, Twiggy has thrown around a lot of time, effort, and numbers, but not too much actual cash.

Forrest/Minderoo received a dividend from FMG last year of about $400 Million.

 

[barbarian]

But that's all hypothetical. The analysis above states that his pockets are deep enough to recruit all of our top talent away from Super/Wallabies etc.

I think that's a pretty absurd thing to say, considering where things stand at the moment.
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[barbarian]

And while we can sit back here in the cheap seats and have a crack at a punter who's just having his say, it does go back to what Reg is saying.

What are our expectations here?

If you think the IPRC will end up as some Champions League with all of the world's best players in front of 50k crowds, you are setting yourself up to be seriously disappointed.

If we set our expectations appropriately, everyone will be much better served in the long term.

For me it's a team of young Western Australians, maybe with a few O/S veterans thrown in, playing against other young club players in the Asia-Pacific. I even think NRC standard will be a bit much to hope for, and a comp about the standard of the Shute Shield is more realistic.

Hopefully it will provide a pathway for WA and other overlooked players, and we can see them move into the NRC and then Super Rugby.
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[Boomer]

Seems a lot of people death-riding the concept before it's out the gates.

If any of Reg's objectives are met, wouldn't that be for the betterment of the game?

 

[Killer]

yes it will start out very pedestrian, do any of you remember how poor World Series Cricket was in the beginning? looked like a country cricket match in East Bumfuck.
If anybody thinks those involved from Sinderberry to Twiggy are going to be happy with a second rate NRC comparable competition, you will be wrong.