Super Rugby AU Rnd 3: Brumbies vs Rebels, Sat 06/03/21

[Dan54]

Well bugger me, was thoroughly enjoying game, but a bit tired (was about 11pm here) and being a neutral I thought will record rest of game and went to bed. get up this morning went to delete Friday nights game and pressed button twice so deleted this one too. Still really enjoyed frist half, was good, and must admit although I accidently deleted it, I was then getting confused as there were 3live games on TV here from NH (at same time). One each from Wales, Ireland and France! Did watch a fair bit of Welsh and Irish games. I such a bloody tragic.

 

[TSR]

In all seriousness defence is great but if you can’t score points what’s the point? We need to look to attack more

You scored 21 last night and got beaten after the bell by a kick that young Lonergan will probably remember for the rest of his life.

I haven’t listened to last nights presser yet, but last week Wessels was pretty specific on the reasons that the Rebels were playing the way they were and it has got them within a penalty of a win in what will be two of their toughest assignments.

The problem for Wessels is he has a relatively short time to add the extra layers he needs and which he has publicly stated he intends to add. But, on the flip side he only needs to sneak into third to make the finals and, whilst the Rebels have without doubt been handed a very tough hand to play from with the draw they will have a run home of home games to build momentum leading to the finals.

I’m not saying Wessels will get it right - but it is worth listening to last weeks press conference and considering the circumstances that the Rebels are dealing with.

As for the battle of the 10s I continue to be impressed by Lolesio’s progress and his deft touch for the Ikitau try was the sort of finesse that has been lacking in Australian rugby play for 10 yrs. But I thought To'omua gave something of a masterclass in playing to a game plan, applying field position pressure and punishing a team for it’s indiscretions. He’s never going to be Bernie Larkham, but within the limitations of his game I thought he did well last night and was the most influential back on the field, for mine (although happy to accept many would give that accolade to Koroibete).

 

[TSR]

On a side note - did anyone else think Hardwick was unlucky not to win the penalty on that last play. He seemed to be on his feet with hands on the ball long enough to have got the call, IMO.

But I haven’t seen any comments for Rebels fans, so I assume I’m alone on this. Is the general consensus that he wasn’t holding his own body weight, or that he didn’t actually have control of the ball?

 

[Adam84]

To'omua has the best game control and composure of any of the Australian 10's IMO, the game plan they've played the past two weeks hasn't been sexy but its pushed the two best teams in the comp to the 80th min to win the game.

From the Rebels i thought players like Pincus, Anderson, Eloff, Leota, Hosea and Hodge all played really well, although Koroibete was best on ground for them.

 

[Cancelled Account]

You scored 21 last night and got beaten after the bell by a kick that young Lonergan will probably remember for the rest of his life.

I haven’t listened to last nights presser yet, but last week Wessels was pretty specific on the reasons that the Rebels were playing the way they were and it has got them within a penalty of a win in what will be two of their toughest assignments.

The problem for Wessels is he has a relatively short time to add the extra layers he needs and which he has publicly stated he intends to add. But, on the flip side he only needs to sneak into third to make the finals and, whilst the Rebels have without doubt been handed a very tough hand to play from with the draw they will have a run home of home games to build momentum leading to the finals.

I’m not saying Wessels will get it right - but it is worth listening to last weeks press conference and considering the circumstances that the Rebels are dealing with.

As for the battle of the 10s I continue to be impressed by Lolesio’s progress and his deft touch for the Ikitau try was the sort of finesse that has been lacking in Australian rugby play for 10 yrs. But I thought To'omua gave something of a masterclass in playing to a game plan, applying field position pressure and punishing a team for it’s indiscretions. He’s never going to be Bernie Larkham, but within the limitations of his game I thought he did well last night and was the most influential back on the field, for mine (although happy to accept many would give that accolade to Koroibete).

Lolesio and Ikitau are playing a good combination and will become more dangerous as the season progresses. To'omua is all class and has controlled both games like a master. Great game to watch.

 

[Rebels3]

On a side note - did anyone else think Hardwick was unlucky not to win the penalty on that last play. He seemed to be on his feet with hands on the ball long enough to have got the call, IMO.

But I haven’t seen any comments for Rebels fans, so I assume I’m alone on this. Is the general consensus that he wasn’t holding his own body weight, or that he didn’t actually have control of the ball?

It was a 50/50 so can’t complain. Was more annoyed he gave away a stupid penalty 40seconds earlier. Lacked serious game awareness in doing so

 

[TSR]

Fair enough. Agree it certainly wasn’t a shocker from the Ref. More a 50/50 - but personally I did think Hardwick died enough to get the call.

But that’s the nature of those calls I guess - you win some, you lose some.

 

[Adam84]

On a side note - did anyone else think Hardwick was unlucky not to win the penalty on that last play. He seemed to be on his feet with hands on the ball long enough to have got the call, IMO.

But I haven’t seen any comments for Rebels fans, so I assume I’m alone on this. Is the general consensus that he wasn’t holding his own body weight, or that he didn’t actually have control of the ball?

It was a tough one and I've had a look again, i think it comes down to Hardwicks technique over the ball. One of World Rugby's interpretations of the law is that the jackler has the right to go at the ball but must be supporting their own bodyweight. What they don't want is the jackler closing off the ruck not supporting their own weight then resetting, which is what i think Hardwick does quite often and did in this case.

I think Hardwick actually needs to adjust his technique or he may be increasingly penalised as the season continues.

 

[Rebel man]

You scored 21 last night and got beaten after the bell by a kick that young Lonergan will probably remember for the rest of his life.

I haven’t listened to last nights presser yet, but last week Wessels was pretty specific on the reasons that the Rebels were playing the way they were and it has got them within a penalty of a win in what will be two of their toughest assignments.

The problem for Wessels is he has a relatively short time to add the extra layers he needs and which he has publicly stated he intends to add. But, on the flip side he only needs to sneak into third to make the finals and, whilst the Rebels have without doubt been handed a very tough hand to play from with the draw they will have a run home of home games to build momentum leading to the finals.

I’m not saying Wessels will get it right - but it is worth listening to last weeks press conference and considering the circumstances that the Rebels are dealing with.

As for the battle of the 10s I continue to be impressed by Lolesio’s progress and his deft touch for the Ikitau try was the sort of finesse that has been lacking in Australian rugby play for 10 yrs. But I thought To'omua gave something of a masterclass in playing to a game plan, applying field position pressure and punishing a team for it’s indiscretions. He’s never going to be Bernie Larkham, but within the limitations of his game I thought he did well last night and was the most influential back on the field, for mine (although happy to accept many would give that accolade to Koroibete).

Didn’t watch the presser. Just feel at times especially when we are a man up we need to look to take 7 points overs 3

 

[Rugbynutter39]

2 quality and close games this weekend.

Feel for rebels as two weeks in a row lost near the death.


Would have been good for the competition if rebels won against brumbies but rebels certainly amongst top 3 with brumbies and reds with force and tahs together some gap behind (and whilst tahs and force improving hard to see them be in final 3 as feel brumbies, reds and rebels the front runners)

 

[Pfitzy]

Fair enough. Agree it certainly wasn’t a shocker from the Ref. More a 50/50 - but personally I did think Hardwick died enough to get the call.

But that’s the nature of those calls I guess - you win some, you lose some.

Comes down to consistency in managing that area. Murphy didn't set any good early guidelines - particularly last feet at ruck - and so players kept doing what they were doing.

 

[Pfitzy]

On the Hardwick "tip" tackle - the crime there is that the game must be played on your feet. By going to the knee and trying to hit low, you're not on your feet. The likely result is a player going past the horizontal just because of physics, but it is a far different situation to a standing tackle driving up and ending like that, in terms of danger.

Brumbies got away with one in the air as well. More about Murphy getting frozen in the headlights (every. fucking. game.) than anything else.

In this, the Mehrtens article from the other week was right in intent if not direct context: the refs aren't doing a good enough job. There is just as much politics in refereeing as any other area of rugby. And it isn't an easy gig, but we should at least have support structures that allow a big enough pool of referees to allow the cream to rise.

 

[TSR]

Didn’t watch the presser. Just feel at times especially when we are a man up we need to look to take 7 points overs 3

Well I don’t know that I’ll tell you anything you don’t know, but he highlighted -
- they had significant squad turnover
- they were unable to secure a trial until right at the end
- part of their squad joined them very late
- they were forced to leave Melbourne on two hours notice. Some if the players had to advise their partners from the road that they had gone. They haven’t been home since
- they had had a single training session at their normal home facility

That is not to say Wessels presented those facts as excuses - he was adamant both this week and last that they were there to win, had opportunities to win and that they had to be good enough to take them, but he did point out that the squad had been forced to be pragmatic and adopt a relatively narrow/conservative game plan based on defence & field position to win. He did say last week that they planned to work on the intricacies of their attack with a view to being more expansive going forward.

 

[Derpus]

On the Hardwick "tip" tackle - the crime there is that the game must be played on your feet. By going to the knee and trying to hit low, you're not on your feet. The likely result is a player going past the horizontal just because of physics, but it is a far different situation to a standing tackle driving up and ending like that, in terms of danger.

Brumbies got away with one in the air as well. More about Murphy getting frozen in the headlights (every. fucking. game.) than anything else.

In this, the Mehrtens article from the other week was right in intent if not direct context: the refs aren't doing a good enough job. There is just as much politics in refereeing as any other area of rugby. And it isn't an easy gig, but we should at least have support structures that allow a big enough pool of referees to allow the cream to rise.

I can't wait to see Pfitzy reffing a game.

 

[mst]

In all seriousness defence is great but if you can’t score points what’s the point? We need to look to attack more

It interesting to look at the stats and then ponder the problem.

Typically To'omua kicks a lot (the pro's and con's are a separate argument). It appears the Brumbies simply countered his boot with theirs which essentially nullified his territory game (kicks from hand were 50/50).

Set piece; the scrums were pretty much all Brumbies, lineouts were competitive but still fairly even.

The possession and territory are pretty much 50/50 as are many of the other stats. From that the key deviation is that the Rebels:

• ran about 160 more metres
• had 25 more runs
• had 68 more passes.

Based on the those numbers it appears they have plenty of opportunity, but no clear idea what to do with it to actually score. There is a lot of work being put in for zero return. This does however correlate with the challenges Wessels has been talking about.

If you go back to the Reds game they had little opportunity (it was the Red's running around chaotically like kids on a sugar rush!). The swing to the Rebels in last nights game gave them the possession that were starved off in their first game.

Is this a case of sticking to a game plan rather than adapt to the situation? I get the week one game plan but had they fallen in too much in love with To'omua's boot?

 

[TSR]

Good points/analysis MST.

While Wessels has expressed that he intends for the Rebels to be more expansive in last nights presser he made it clear he was happy to take point however they came. Certainly from what I’ve seen of Wessels coaching I can’t imagine they are going to mimic the Aukland Blues anytime soon. If they were going to try To'omua & Hodge couldn’t be your 10/12.

But I do think it’s a reasonable expectation that their attack will sharpen as the season progresses and they will be able to both generate and finish a few more try scoring opportunities.

 

[mst]

I think for the Rebels next week they need to try and move away from the kicking game; both from hand and tee. They need to be brave and take some chances to get the "ball in hand" working. They should match up well with the Force up front, so its a perfect chance to let their backs get in to a game.

The challenge for the Rebels is how to support To'omua with a more "ball in hand" game when his key strength at 10 is his territory kicking game. If they can find that balance they will be really dangerous.

 

[Rebels3]

I don’t actually think they are doing much different than the other teams are, except once they get into the opposing half they inevitably have a penalty and they always take it. The other teams are doing the same thing, except when they are 40 out they kick for the corner with the same opportunity. In their own half and the middle of the park they are pretty much offering what all other teams are. I don’t think we know what strike power they have because they haven’t bothered to take the opportunity to do so.

It’d be interesting if a team can keep the pen count down to see what they can do without offering the kick at goal opportunity.

 

[Pfitzy]

I can't wait to see Pfitzy reffing a game.

You may yet get your chance if I'm called on later in the year.

My skill level is in direct proportion to what I get paid as a ref. You'd like to think Murphy's is as well.

 

[Pfitzy]

Set piece; the scrums were pretty much all Brumbies, lineouts were competitive but still fairly even.

Ponies lineout was ordinary relative to their usual day out. Lost at least a couple in areas they would maul from, so probably affected the margin.

https://www.espn.com.au/rugby/matchstats?gameId=593077&league=289272

According to the above, 12 from 15 Brumbies and I'd say all of the stray throws happened after Mcinerney went off.

Rebels 11 from 12 apparently.

Penalties were a high count for what I thought was a fairly fast moving game, being 14-13 conceded.