Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

A press release actually confirmed Aus Govt funding for the Drua, even Fijian news papers reported it. I haven’t seen any report about NZRU funding besides Paul ‘the NZRU mouthpiece’ Cully claiming it.

Never said I agree with you, just questioning why you’re happy to use journalist comments when it suits your argument, but refute them when they don’t.

Please see my original post
(

Don't know how much truth there is in this.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-impasse-as-fijian-drua-moana-pasifika-suffer
A round robin with some double ups and 8 team finals so we can have everyone wins a prize? But no full confrences.)​

See where I start it with "Don't know how much truth there is in this"? ​

I thought even you would realise I saying I not sure it true or false, just what is reported.​

 

[Dan54]

Previously i would have agreed, but the past 12months he has absolutely taken to speaking rumours and agendas on behalf of what he describes as "well placed sources" in the NZRU.

Or more likely previously you agreed , then he didn't always agree wuth your agenda.

Anyway whether it true or false, it seems RA and NZR aren't looking at seperate comps, or either of them would not have to wait for agreement with other.

 

[Dan54]

why isn't it a good money spinner which is the point.

I agree mate, but as a rugby man, I think 2 times a year is plenty. But understand it will probably be played 3 times for money.

 

[Adam84]

Moana Pasifika have been granted an unconditional license for 2022, Drua still in the works

NZ press release: https://www.superrugby.co.nz/news/moana-pasifika-granted-unconditional-licence/

 

[Dan54]

Yep, it's not a done deal. With the covid situation ongoing, 2022 still has plenty of hurdles. But I would suggest Drua's prospects are better than the Moana's.

Well well well, MP (Moana Pasifika) prospects are less

Mate I taking the p*** with you, but don't you hate the timing of these announcements so soon after yours?

But I real pleased that at least one has the word to go ahead and start proper planning, they got enough hurdles to get over without making it harder. I would suggest that Sekope Kefu will be signed by this week (would make good captain), and any uncontracted players on Tonga/Samoa have got more to play for this weekend.
I understand the Covid situation in Fiji could cause problems, but hope they can get something sorted soon.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Please see my original post

Don't know how much truth there is in this.​

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby.-impasse-as-fijian-drua-moana-pasifika-suffer​

A round robin with some double ups and 8 team finals so we can have everyone wins a prize? But no full confrences.)​

See where I start it with "Don't know how much truth there is in this"? ​

I thought even you would realise I saying I not sure it true or false, just what is reported.​

Round Robin with 8 team finals....if that is true it sounds like - lets skirt a round the real problem of lopsided contests and just do some token gimmicky stuff that won't work but lets us keep our own agendas for TT alive and well.

 

[Bandar]

I'm pleased for them also

I take it that NZR & RA are still working out if we have 2 comps (6 in each), a comp with 2 conferences of 6, or the full 12 team comp.

If it's the 1st (which I hope it is) then it's up to RA to announce the Drua in our comp when they come to an agreement.

Either way there will be 12 teams playing next year.

 

[Dan54]

Round Robin with 8 team finals..if that is true it sounds like - lets skirt a round the real problem of lopsided contests and just do some token gimmicky shit that won't work but lets us keep our own agendas for TT alive and well.

Seems that way. It smells of making sure little Johnny just has to turn up to get prize doesn't it?

 

[kiap]

Well well well, MP (Moana Pasifika) prospects are less

So Moana's prospects are suddenly great, now?

That's great!

Mate I taking the p*** with you, but don't you hate the timing of these announcements so soon after yours?

NZ are guaranteeing MP (Moana Pasifika), why would I hate it?

Let's see how they go.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Please see my original post
(

Don't know how much truth there is in this.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby.-impasse-as-fijian-drua-moana-pasifika-suffer
A round robin with some double ups and 8 team finals so we can have everyone wins a prize? But no full confrences.)​

See where I start it with "Don't know how much truth there is in this"? ​

I thought even you would realise I saying I not sure it true or false, just what is reported.​

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/s...itch-round-robin-format-marketing-expert?rm=a

Dan this is the real stuff you should read on stuff.co.nz backed up by experts and evidence ie nzru should look at super rugby as more then talent development for the all blacks. This article to me outlines clearly how Nzru with their approach is killing super rugby and killing oz interest in super rugby. Don’t quote me as all laid out in the article.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Below is best article I have read which explains why super rugby is so screwed in terms of reasons how we got here and what needs to be done to address it

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/s...itch-round-robin-format-marketing-expert?rm=a

 

[Adam84]

There’s just no way a round robin tournament will be competitive under the current funding agreement and player distributions, if it’s not competitive then Australian fan interest is going to decline, and ultimately the tournament as a whole will fail.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

There’s just no way a round robin tournament will be competitive under the current funding agreement and player distributions, if it’s not competitive then Australian fan interest is going to decline, and ultimately the tournament as a whole will fail.

The article I posted highlights marketing expert involved in MLR, EPL and state of origin as to why super rugby since 2005 has been surpassed by other competitions and why a round robin format dominated by nz teams will be the death knell for oz pro rugby. The article really reminds us how Nzru lack of vision and running super rugby for its own talent program for the all blacks is killing super rugby.

 

[Adam84]

The article I posted highlights marketing expert involved in MLR, EPL and state of origin as to why super rugby since 2005 has been surpassed by other competitions and why a round robin format dominated by nz teams will be the death knell for oz pro rugby. The article really reminds us how Nzru lack of vision and running super rugby for its own talent program for the all blacks is killing super rugby.

I guess that’s where Australia and New Zealand different, Australia needs more then just the Wallabies for the game to grow, whereas in NZ they’ve reached a critical mass where the All Blacks are enough to sustain the game. Super Rugby needs to be more then just a development pathway for Australia, it needs to be a tournament which really grows the game because the Wallabies brand doesn’t carry the same allure or engage the population as much.

 

[Joe King]

I'm wondering if we are going to end up with a fairly creative format to try and meet the interests of both countries.

Maybe something like...

Play Super Rugby AU and Super Rugby Aotearoa as seperate comps with 6 teams each, but throughout those comps, teams will play 'cross-conference' games to gain points which will count towards their position within their own comp. So there will be two seperate ladders throughout.

Then a semi and a final within each comp, with the two winners playing in a 'Super Bowl' game.

This allows RA to retain Super Rugby AU with an Australian winner, but also have games against NZ teams for high performance purposes.

It also allows NZR to avoid playing against just themselves, with plenty of games against the Australian teams throughout, and a chance to tap into the Australian market.

A simple round robin is too short, and a double round robin is too long for the available window. However, this format allows them to maximise the amount of weeks available in the window without using the dreaded 'unfair' conference system with a single ladder.


EDIT: Actually, this concept is very similar to NZ's own NPC format, so Kiwis would be familiar with it. NPC has two divisions with 7 teams each. The divisions are seperate comps in that each has its own ladder and finals and winner, but teams play a certain amount of cross-division games which count towards their standing within their own division.

 

[Joe King]

In the linked video, Ben Darwin makes the point that because of NZ's NPC, the NZ Super Rugby teams/players basically get to play together for a full season, while the Australian teams only get half a season before players go back to club rugby.

The point being, the NPC helps create a lot better cohesion amongst the NZ players within the Super Rugby teams.

If the Australian teams are going to be playing the NZ teams in some capacity each year, then they really need to build better cohesion somehow.

One way of doing that is through the NRC. Another way is to simply keep the Super Rugby teams together (minus their Wallabies) and play more games against each other post-Super Rugby, or go on tour, etc. This would also be the time to introduce new players into the mix.

The purpose of this is NOT to introduce a new competition to appeal to spectators. It's simply to make the Super Rugby teams more competitive. It's not pretty, but it's simple.

I might be wrong, but I'm thinking this might be easier to do than creating new teams and coaching structures as per the NRC. Might also get less resistance from the clubs.


EDIT: Actually, this is a similar to the idea behind the Australian Provincial Championship (APC), which ran for only one year in 2006, before being replaced by the ARC in 2007. After the ARC crashed and burned after only one year also, they never returned to the APC concept.

 

[Dan54]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/s...itch-round-robin-format-marketing-expert?rm=a

Dan this is the real stuff you should read on stuff.co.nz backed up by experts and evidence ie nzru should look at super rugby as more then talent development for the all blacks. This article to me outlines clearly how Nzru with their approach is killing super rugby and killing oz interest in super rugby. Don’t quote me as all laid out in the article.

I read the article a week or so ago , but didn't think I better quote it as Adam84 has assured us all the writer Paul Cully is a NZR stooge
But honestly, you still doing the same, blaming NZR, it's like you keep saying that poor RA has had no say in Sanzaar etc etc, because like always it's not RA's fault, because you can either blame NZR etc. So RA seems to be still talking about a 12 team comp, you saying that's all NZR's fault. If it is better for Aus rugby , why doesn't Hamish and Leap Frog just go it alons??
The artcle is great from a point of view but I ask you has this not been done for last while?
Arkwright - who has worked with US Major League franchises, an EPL club and the NSW Blues in State of Origin - believes that should open the door for a conference-style system that would produce at least one Australian semifinalist,
That is exactly what has happened for last 10 years or so that you have saying has killed the comp!
And I ask again, why aren't RA just going alone if it so bad for Aus rugby.
And if you so sure this writer is correct red this part.
Arkwright believes Super Rugby lost its right to be called “the best competition in the world” in about 2005, and has been caught up or surpassed by the Top 14 in France and the English Premiership, while he said the newly minted United Rugby Championship – with South African sides joining the old Pro 14 –would generate excitement in the northern hemisphere.
He says Super rugby lost it's right to being the best comp in the world in 2005, and what happened in 2005 and after? RA and SA decided they needed to add teams, NZR were just staying the same. So who stuffed Super rugby? Tell me again it's all NZR's fault and poor RA has been told what they have to do.
“NZ Rugby should consider themselves as the saviours of the game and take the financial hit,” he said.
And I call this bullshit!! Why should grassroots rugby , you know the kids etc on Saturday morning etc have to suffer because RA has f***ed the game up and they need more money. Isn't it up yo WR (World Rugby) to save the game?

I would add I have read the Ben Darwin theory (as posted by Joe King)before and thought it made huge sense about making Aus super teams better, but no you want NZR to do it!!

 

[hoggy]

You know what Dan, why don't we just go our seperate ways and meet for Test rugby. Surely that is the best option, if the RA are incompetent so be it let them go bust. As you say the WORLD is your market, why bother with Aus.

And I agree its bullshit grassroots NZ rugby should pay for anything regards Australian rugby, so lets do it, lets seperate so NZ can conquer the world with the All Blacks and Aus rugby can begin to sort out its own shit out for a change.

 

[Dan54]

You know what Dan, why don't we just go our seperate ways and meet for Test rugby. Surely that is the best option, if the RA are incompetent so be it let them go bust. As you say the WORLD is your market, why bother with Aus.

And I agree its bullshit grassroots NZ rugby should pay for anything regards Australian rugby, so lets do it, lets seperate so NZ can conquer the world with the All Blacks and Aus rugby can begin to sort out its own shit out for a change.

I have asked that to Hoggy. If NZR is so bad for RA, why are they even talking? Mate, if that is what is best for RA I don't mind, I just don't believe it is. But as I say, anyone suggesting it up to NZR take a financial hit is crazy. Unlike most on this forum I have been quite involved in grassroots rugby both in NZ and Aus , and know which one looks after grassroots rugby better, and so it goes up through to Super etc. let's both go seperate ways completely, RA doesn't get rights to show NZ rugby as part of their tv deals, and vice versa. So RA could get money off Sky NZ if they wanted to broadcast Aus rugby, and NZ rugby would have to do same with Stan or Fox etc. Or failing that let RugbyPass be streamed in Aus. Then there would be no blame.

 

[liquor box]

But you are turning the pnnacle into a 6 pack & pizza. Playing 3 tests a year against NZ in the long run just diminishes the occasion, it may be a money spinner but every year you slightly cheapen the event. In the long run you ultimately lessen its value.

The pyramid is upside down when your national team is playing its opponents more than your domestic teams are playing theres.

Apart from diminishing the occasion, it also diminishes the jersey. The number of players who are Wallabies seems to be far more numerous than in my distant memories.

Sometimes it seems like Super Rugby games have more Wallabies than non Wallabies starting the game for both teams.

Less games adds intensity and makes the jersey mean more