Boks v Blecks match thread

[kiwi_rugby_fan]

Feel free to make it. We've only been waiting a year or so for the Kiwi reply.

let's start with the red tactic of running to their man in an offside position basically causing an obstruction, beau robinson doing exactly what you accuse richie of doing, ie taking out players illegally, coming in from the side etc, will genia not knowing that the ball is supposed to go backwards...just a few to moll over. regardless, the result will be as it always is, Oz will talk themselves up and never deliver. 100 years of dominance tells me this.

 

[cyclopath]

let's start with the red tactic of running to their man in an offside position basically causing an obstruction, beau robinson doing exactly what you accuse richie of doing, ie taking out players illegally, coming in from the side etc, will genia not knowing that the ball is supposed to go backwards...just a few to moll over. regardless, the result will be as it always is, Oz will talk themselves up and never deliver. 100 years of dominance tells me this.

Well, that's nice and all, DPK and KRF, but not the right thread. Feel free to start one on this subject if you like, I'm sure there will be plenty of willing debaters. This thread is the AB v Bokke thread.

 

[ScepticalScotty]

And still only won Bill once? Must be some voodoo going on there eh?

 

[Muttonbird]

Can't see how the Bok coaches would have learned anything from watching their own side. May have picked up a few strategies to unlock the AB's defence but didn't action any of that tonight. They really are putting all their eggs in one basket. Waste of a tour.

ABs improved from last week and that's what we all want but I'm wary of them playing at 100% too soon this year. They cruised tonight but didn't need to do any more and obviously could have done a lot less. It was a good stepping stone between Fiji and the Bledisloe next week. That is must-win for psychological reasons but, given SARU's attitude towards to 3N this year, still only counts as a warm-up to the big one.

Scarfman was entertaining on this thread - nicely balanced as always. Hilarious!:lmao:

 

[kiwi_rugby_fan]

And still only won Bill once? Must be some voodoo going on there eh?

you're right, only one for now. even if we don't win this year, i know it will come. you can't be the dominant force in the sport for a century and not succeed. look at Brazil, slow starters but now with the most cups. i still prefer a played 140, won 95, lost 40, drew 5 record. a couple of cups later and let's see where the record stands...lol for the record, these are the stats for NZ v Oz, though deep down you already knew

 

[Jay]

Feel free to make it. We've only been waiting a year or so for the Kiwi reply.

We've been a bit busy. Watching our team win tests....

 

[tranquility]

come saturday i intend to drink to your demise at eden park

Cheer up buddy!! that doesn't sound like much fun....

 

[Sully]

Well, that's nice and all, DPK and KRF, but not the right thread. Feel free to start one on this subject if you like, I'm sure there will be plenty of willing debaters. This thread is the AB v Bokke thread.

I would say there will be mass debaters in that thread.

 

[Mank]

Can't see how the Bok coaches would have learned anything from watching their own side. May have picked up a few strategies to unlock the AB's defence but didn't action any of that tonight. They really are putting all their eggs in one basket. Waste of a tour.

The only thing we should have learned, but won't have, is that South Africa do not have nearly the depth of talent my countrymen say we do. Some injuries to key players and we will be looking very shaky (well, more so than already). We're thin on good locks. Basically only have one decent fetcher in Brussow. Etc.

Strange game for me. I thought SA played reasonably well in patches with decent ball retention, only to cough it up with another turnover or unforced error. And every single time the ABs got the ball in broken play it felt like a try was on. Our defence was absolutely nowhere in broken play and only a little better from set pieces.

Hope we can test both the Aussies and ABs a bit more at home. I'm looking more forward to seeing the Wallabies against the ABs though, should be some good games coming up.

 

[Groucho]

Can't see how the Bok coaches would have learned anything from watching their own side. May have picked up a few strategies to unlock the AB's defence but didn't action any of that tonight. They really are putting all their eggs in one basket. Waste of a tour.

ABs improved from last week and that's what we all want but I'm wary of them playing at 100% too soon this year. They cruised tonight but didn't need to do any more and obviously could have done a lot less. It was a good stepping stone between Fiji and the Bledisloe next week. That is must-win for psychological reasons but, given SARU's attitude towards to 3N this year, still only counts as a warm-up to the big one.

Scarfman was entertaining on this thread - nicely balanced as always. Hilarious!:lmao:

The Boks made good inroads into the New Zealand defence, especially in the second half, right up the middle. What they lacked was the firepower to finish it off.

 

[Groucho]

Cheer up buddy!! that doesn't sound like much fun....

You can always tell when the Wallabies are getting close: the Kiwi trolls come out. :lmao:

 

[Spewn]

Who is the Boks number 1?. his specialty seems to be hitting the rucks from the side, trying to look mean and hoiking McCaws dacks up his arse as an attempt at a clean out. Very poor.

 

[Athilnaur]

Must have watched a different game. I saw a game where the Boks showed some potential in the face of an onslaught. Were they outgunned? Of course. Did they have periods of play where they held their own? Definitely. Did they crawl in a hole and die in the last 20? No. ABs played an experimental game well. Eg Carter at centre wtf? If anything he was better there than 10 in a running game sense, albeit with run of play. And ABs did it while retaining better shape than we did post 60.

Meanwhile the Boks showed some grit, and from where I sit Smit locked in his role as Captain. Was he a rocket at 2, no. But as a leader he stood up this week. For my 2c anyone in afreeka knocking him is missing the point.

The bad news for us was how well Hore, Thomson, McCaw and Jane (in patches) and Nonu played. AB's had a free rein at breakdown today, not the first time we have seen that style of reffing but will it happen at RWC? Not aure I'd complain with that kind of reffing if we're on the field.

The good news was SBW was lost. I confess to having been slow to see his weakness during combative play. Long may it stay that way because from where I sit that boy is the ABs best shot at a gamebreaker.

Overall the ABs did ok, but I saw nothing to tell me we can't beat them at Eden Park. As for Kamo Kid's 'Wallabies are unstructured' comment, meh. Let's see what next week brings, from where I sit the ABs will need their core to inject something in the face of a Wallabies team growing fast to win next week. If they don't history is gonna be made.


Go Wallabies!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

A requirement of a captain is that their place in the team is absolutely unquestioned. Unfortunately for Smit, that is not the case any more. He's a great captain, but there are too many guys playing better than him, especially one of the world's best in the form of Bismark du Plessis. I have a huge amount of time for Smit, but this is looking like a year too long for him.

 

[tranquility]

I thought Deysel looked very tough as well, he must have been a presence on the field as well because Andrew Hore (a noted tough man) dropped the seed due to having a peek. How did he go in super rugby this season? I don't watch much South African rugby unfortunately....

 

[pete88]

Wish we had a B-team with a back row that could keep Ashley Johnson on the bench. I still can't explain how he didn't start and play damn near 160 minutes over the last two games.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Johnson was a stand out when he came on I thought.

 

[TheNextBigThing]

I thought Deysel looked very tough as well, he must have been a presence on the field as well because Andrew Hore (a noted tough man) dropped the seed due to having a peek. How did he go in super rugby this season? I don't watch much South African rugby unfortunately....

Had an enforcer role in a strong sharks back-row. Tried to detach Tom Carter's head. Doesn't have the penetrative power of Spies, Alberts, Kankowski (At his best) and without the skills and pace round the park of Smith, Brussow or Burger.

Best I've seen him play was tonight.

 

[Stickybeak]

Watching now. New jersey a wee but shut.

Rolland the ref - ask me what I think of him.

What do you think of Rolland the ref?

 

[Stickybeak]

Thanks for asking.

[video=youtube;pdr-W775hk4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdr-W775hk4[/video]

Fantastic analysis and as one of the posters in this thread suggested do it for the Wallabies as well. I'm confident that you won't find such a premeditated all hands to the pumps approach to cheating: you wont see A A-C doing what Conrad Smith did, for instance, and if Pocock pulled 3 stunts like the McCaw incidents you have highlighted he'd be sitting down for 10.

I disagreed, slightly, with your analysis of McCaw's entry into the Springbok side of the ruck at about the 4 minute mark of the tape: he was pushed into it. He had intended to merely block the Boks on the short side and one of them got rid of him. But he should not be standing in that position he should have been penalised immediately - it was the same position taken up for the same reasons as that taken up by Williams in the kickoff which started the tape. Others took up that position as well as you have highlighted. This is systematic cheating.

I am not sure one can confidently predict that the ABs deserved to win in these circumstances. Had Smith been called out for the off ball tackle (no doubt said to be a cleanout by the Kiwis) that would have been a no try. Had McCaw been binned they would have been down to 14 on their own line and their leading cheat would have been removed from the fray.

The only other disagreement I have is with singling out Rolland for blame: in my view all refs favour the team they expect to be dominant. This is clearest at scrum time and has been a real problem with Australian scrummaging. Because the refs have next to no idea whats going on in the scrums they penalise the team they think has the weaker scrum: arguably this explains the "too much pressure" penalty against the Wallabies from last week. When we showed the ref we were equal or better the penalties came our way. i think the breakdown is the same: not enough of the type of analysis you have undertaken seeps out into the mainstream media and when it does its just Aussies whingeing 'cos we lost again.

A concerted campaign to uncover the fact that the ABs have such great continuity of possession and turnover so much ball because they have a structured approach to cheating would expose them for mere mortals. No ref has the courage to do that - least of all when in NZ.