2011 Spring Tour

[Lindommer]

...I still reckon Matt Giteau should have been part of the squad and perhaps the injuries will provide him the opportunity to come back into international rugby. Though I doubt it, whatever went on between Kiwi Robbie and Gits, it seems to have spelled the end. Nonetheless, I would like to see a backline for the spring tour chosen as such:

9- Genia
10- Barnes
11- Digby
12- Giteau
13- Horne
14- JOC (James O'Connor)
15- AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

As Gits is off to Toulon he won't be considered for Oz selection.

 

[nathan]

Would love to see:

Hookers: Stephen Moore, Tatafu Polota-Nau
Props: Sekope Kepu, Ben Alexander, James Slipper, Salesi Ma'afu
Locks: James Horwill (c), Nathan Sharpe, Rob Simmons
Loose Forwards: David Pocock, Beau Robinson, Scott Higginbotham, Ita Vaea, Dave Dennis, Ben McCalman
Scrumhalves: Will Genia, Ben Lucas
Fly-halves: Berrick Barnes, Mike Harris
Centres: James O'Connor, Rob Horne, Ben Tapuai
Wingers: Digby Ioane, Luke Morahan, Drew Mitchell
Fullback: Kurtley Beale

I think there's real utility value in Ben Lucas, and Nick Phipps hasn't impressed me at all. Mike Harris would be a good option to take as a flyhalf back up, but also has the ability to play 12 and 15 as shown this year for the Reds. I'd love to see Ita Vaea and Dave Dennis be given a shot, as they've got qualities that I think are missing from the Wallabies forward structure at the moment, especially from 8. Ben Tapuai and James O'Connor to battle it out at 12, with Horne at 13 and Morahan or Digby to cover if (and there's a good chance based on history) Horne ends up breaking.

 

[fatprop]

Is there anything definitive on who is fit/available?

 

[mark_s]

I would like to see us try some new blood at 6 and 8. Higgenbottom and McCalman deserve a chance after their bronze performance but would like some new blood to be taken away as replacements. I reckon Ben Mowen's style of game suits test match football.

 

[Scotty]

I'd take Dave Dennis over Mowen.

 

[RedsHappy]

Would love to see:

Hookers: Stephen Moore, Tatafu Polota-Nau
Props: Sekope Kepu, Ben Alexander, James Slipper, Salesi Ma'afu
Locks: James Horwill (c), Nathan Sharpe, Rob Simmons
Loose Forwards: David Pocock, Beau Robinson, Scott Higginbotham, Ita Vaea, Dave Dennis, Ben McCalman
Scrumhalves: Will Genia, Ben Lucas
Fly-halves: Berrick Barnes, Mike Harris
Centres: James O'Connor, Rob Horne, Ben Tapuai
Wingers: Digby Ioane, Luke Morahan, Drew Mitchell
Fullback: Kurtley Beale

I think there's real utility value in Ben Lucas, and Nick Phipps hasn't impressed me at all. Mike Harris would be a good option to take as a flyhalf back up, but also has the ability to play 12 and 15 as shown this year for the Reds. I'd love to see Ita Vaea and Dave Dennis be given a shot, as they've got qualities that I think are missing from the Wallabies forward structure at the moment, especially from 8. Ben Tapuai and James O'Connor to battle it out at 12, with Horne at 13 and Morahan or Digby to cover if (and there's a good chance based on history) Horne ends up breaking.

I like Harris a lot, but do we know if he's formally 'registered' as a potential Aus player given that, as he's stated it, he has enough Aus heritage to do so (Aus grandparent as I recall). He came into the 2011 Reds as a Kiwi player.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'd take Dave Dennis over Mowen.

And either before Rocky


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[Bowside]

Can we ease up with the new players. Many of them have not yet 'earnt' a test cap, and would probably be better served getting a proper pre season in to build for a big 2012. Its also not a full tour so a full squad is not needed.

I think between Dennis, Mowen, Shatz, Vaea, auelua, kimlin we should be able to find a new 8. As has been said earlier in the thread, impact trumps raw size everyday of the week.

 

[fatprop]

Wallabies must improve in forward play if they are to take next step

Iain Payten
The Daily Telegraph
October 24, 2011 12:00AM

THE World Cup has come and gone, and as is the habit, Aussie rugby fans are already talking over the lessons learned for the next one.

Forget that.

The Wallabies have tougher tests far sooner than 2015, and unless improvements are made, they'll end up with exactly as much silverware as they did in New Zealand.

An expanded Tri Nations begins next year with Argentina joining the fold, and in 2013 a potentially outstanding British and Irish Lions squad will land on our shores.

Both will be armed with powerful forwards, and it will come as no surprise if they'll fancy themselves to roll the Wallabies through the pack. Much attention was been focused on the Wallabies' misfiring backs or their wobbly kicking game in the World Cup, but both were symptoms of a bigger problem: a struggling forward unit.

Bluntly, the Wallabies pack did not fire at the World Cup. To use the star power of the Wallabies back line, Australia need either a stable set-piece platform or lots of front-foot ball. In the big games, they got neither.

The Deans gameplan involves waves of rolling attack but it was effectively nobbled by an inability to win collisions and get quick, fast ball. The Wallabies' work at the breakdown was way off the pace, and if it wasn't for one-man band David Pocock, the Wallabies would have been home two weeks ago.

Physicality at the contact is a lingering problem but Australia weren't "accurate" - as the lingo goes - either.

Time and again Australia sent too few people into rucks and mauls and paid the price.

Watch rival teams and they have a cleaner almost attached to a ball-runner's back. The Wallabies tendency to run one-out led to frequent problems.

Ireland turned Wallaby ball over at will, and the luck of Heinrich Brussow going off injured can't be underestimated in the quarter-final.

The Wallabies had no response when New Zealand flooded rucks like charging rhinos, and even in the bronze playoff, Wales - minus Sam Warburton - picked off Australian ball at will.

Pocock was forced to do it alone. In a tournament dominated by burly backrowers, Rocky Elsom and Radike Samo were just not forceful enough.

Elsom was a world-class player only two years ago but the No. 6 wasn't in the same postcode as Jerome Kaino at this tournament.

Is there enough work done coaching the breakdown? Evidence would say there is not. If the Wallabies are any hope of countering a Lions backrow featuring the likes of Warburton, Sean O'Brien and Jamie Heaslip, more time and effort must be ploughed into that crucial part of the game.

The scrum remains a problem. Talk Wallabies with any foreigner and while fearful of the gold attack, there is always a contented rider: "But your scrum is rubbish."

Much of it is perception but it can be hard to argue at times. Just when signs of improvement take Australian scrummaging off the radar, along comes a poor night and undoes all the good work. An unreliable scrum can put you under pressure in a dozen ways.

In an area no one really understands, referees have shown they'll reward the dominant scrum and the Wallabies haven't been that for many years. Jake White says Eddie Jones' scrum-factory idea of 2003 needs to be dusted off, saying on Kiwi TV: "I think the ARU needs to sit down and say: what do we need to do? O'Connor, Beale, Genia are great players but we need to find front rankers who are going to make these players be able to win a World Cup in four years time."

The Wallabies like props who are fit and mobile but maybe it's time to trade in the potential to sidestep someone in the 70th minute for a ox who can't be budged in scrums.

It is not panic time. Australia has all the talent both in playing and coaching ranks to be the equal of the All Blacks; they simply need to be harnessed.

 

[Lee Grant]

Thanks for posting that Payten article fatprop. He must be reading the stuff in our forum. The more things change, the more they stay the same - forwards not showing up decade after decade after decade - give or take some times when we had great players as around the time of the Grand Slam tour, or Dwyer had for the 1991 RWC, or Macqueen had after the effects of pro rugby kicked in for us.



But back to JOC (James O'Connor).

Right or wrong or in between I would like to take advantage of the injury situation to see how JOC (James O'Connor) goes at 12. It's not just a personal whim but one on behalf of the Wallabies, medium term.

There are some nice theories about why he should or shouldn't start at inside centre and some of them are compelling, but sometimes you have to take a risk that it won't work, or that it will take away from the team by not playing him elsewhere.

He never ceases to surprise me. I remember thinking it was madness for the Force to start such a small young guy at 12 in the S14 towards the end of the 2008 season, his first year out of school. This was just a year after Link chucked Beale into the starting team for the Tahs on the veld a couple of months after leaving school; so I had a jaundiced view of such practice.

In JOCs 2nd starting game he came across a fearsome opponent and though they didn't meet mano a mano many times he did OK. Over 3 years later now I think it is worthwhile to take another leap of faith: see how he goes there in international rugby and see how the rest of the team is affected. Just see.

It may not work out, or it may, or there may not be any team difference one way or the other. It may not be safe, or it may not be necessary later on when everybody is healthy again - but why not give it a go?


PS - That opponent I mentioned was Ma'a Nonu.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm convinced: give JOC (James O'Connor) a go at 12


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[Braveheart81]

I don't know anyone could look at a midfield of Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor) and Horne and think that they will be a weak defensive combination. 3 of the gutsiest defenders we have.

 

[Richo]

I don't know anyone could look at a midfield of Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor) and Horne and think that they will be a weak defensive combination. 3 of the gutsiest defenders we have.

JOC (James O'Connor)'s defense was fantastic all tournament. He absolutely smashed some very, very big blokes. Was it Spies that he nailed in the QF and forced a turnover? For all the crap about "Brand O'Connor", he does truly seem to work on his game.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I'm trying to think if any Aussie had a poor defensive tournament. Which I guess is a pretty strong counter-argument to picking specialist defensive centres.

 

[Lee Grant]

Their tackling was good but that's not the same thing as defending well, especially as a group.

Sometimes a guy smashes people tackle after tackle but unless you do a forensic study of the player you can miss the fact that he wasn't in the right position to make a few tackles and doesn't fire a shot when he could have. Often times this is not mentioned by folks on the forum or the commentators and it won't show up in the stats as a missed tackle.

On the other hand you get a guy rushing to plug a gap time after time and has to dive to tackle and he misses and he looks like a dud compared to the big hitter. Case in point: in one game at the SFS this year one opponent of the Tahs, it may have been the Cheetahs, had this move where the backs were throwing the ball all over the place. Beale missed 3 tackles in one move but he was the only player diligent enough and smart enough to work out the geometry of the move and be in a spot to just miss the tackles.

This was one of the reasons why Horan was so great. His mate Little was the same and as a defensive pairing they were almost mystical in their reading of field geometry.

But I digress: the Wallabies tackled well even against the Kiwis at times but in that game they missed a lot of them because too often the gaps between players were too wide and Wobs couldn't get their shoulders on accordingly. Part of that was good ball movement and switches of play from the Blacks but it also included poor or slow reading by the Golds who were not able to reconfigure in time.

Players need to be able to tackle well but they also have to know how to defend well.

 

[fatprop]

I don't know anyone could look at a midfield of Barnes, JOC (James O'Connor) and Horne and think that they will be a weak defensive combination. 3 of the gutsiest defenders we have.

Unless we get forwards that are athletic, accurate (hitting with proper body height, staying on their feet and staying active in the game) & aggressive it won't matter, when it matters, what backs are chosen - if they aren't getting front foot ball

 

[Scotty]

Thanks for posting that Payten article fatprop. He must be reading the stuff in our forum. The more things change, the more they stay the same - forwards not showing up decade after decade after decade - give or take some times when we had great players as around the time of the Grand Slam tour, or Dwyer had for the 1991 RWC, or Macqueen had after the effects of pro rugby kicked in for us.



But back to JOC (James O'Connor).

Right or wrong or in between I would like to take advantage of the injury situation to see how JOC (James O'Connor) goes at 12. It's not just a personal whim but one on behalf of the Wallabies, medium term.

There are some nice theories about why he should or shouldn't start at inside centre and some of them are compelling, but sometimes you have to take a risk that it won't work, or that it will take away from the team by not playing him elsewhere.

He never ceases to surprise me. I remember thinking it was madness for the Force to start such a small young guy at 12 in the S14 towards the end of the 2008 season, his first year out of school. This was just a year after Link chucked Beale into the starting team for the Tahs on the veld a couple of months after leaving school; so I had a jaundiced view of such practice.

In JOCs 2nd starting game he came across a fearsome opponent and though they didn't meet mano a mano many times he did OK. Over 3 years later now I think it is worthwhile to take another leap of faith: see how he goes there in international rugby and see how the rest of the team is affected. Just see.

It may not work out, or it may, or there may not be any team difference one way or the other. It may not be safe, or it may not be necessary later on when everybody is healthy again - but why not give it a go?


PS - That opponent I mentioned was Ma'a Nonu.

It will work, I have no doubt about it. Despite a little to dislike about him (mainly due to do with ego), I love his play, and every game it has gotten better. He barely makes a mistake and his physicality shows up remainder of the Wallaby backline, bar Ioane. I have no doubt he could play just about every position in the backline, but I think he is made for 12.

 

[pete88]

So does he.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/r...puts-hand-up-for-midfield-20111023-1meid.html

 

[light]

We need to take: Pocock (7), Genia (9), Barnes (10/12), Slipper (1/3), Moore (2), TPN (2), AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (13/14/15), JOC (James O'Connor) (10/12/14/15), Ioane (11), Horwill (4/5)
We should take: Simmons (4/5), Sharpe (4/5), AFainga'a (12/13), Horne (12/13), Alexander (1/3), Hodgson (6/7), McCalman (7/8), Higgenbotham (6/8), Tapuai (12/13), Lucas (9/15), Dennis (6/8), Ma'afu (1/3), Palmer (1)


Injured, and shouldn't be considered: Cooper, Beale, Palu, McCabe, Mitchell, Kepu
We can afford not to take: Vickerman, Elsom, Samo

 

[Keithy]

I liked to see JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 and Barnes at 12. He is a dynamic player who needs to get more touches of the ball.