Waratahs 2013

[waratahjesus]

Tocc - I maybe interpret them differently as I have spoken to a couple if players including one in the wallaby camp currently. Communication is all they go on about. They don't know what's happening next year, they were told and given assurances before they finished the season and those have been broken in the last seven days.

There was factions in the team this year due to the fact foley had been around so long and obviously had a group of players he was tight with that he allowed to speak up over others. The new coach should be an outsider for this reason plain and simple.

As I said earlier, I think sitting round a table and saying "what do you guys want to see happen?" even if not a word is actually put to use will do more for player moral and desire round Moore park than just about anything over the last twelve months. The players obviously feel like the organisation doesn't respect and care about them, leave it that way and it's a very tough ask for any coach with any reputation to expect the players to put their bodies on the line.

 

[TOCC]

Yep sure, i haven't spoken to any of the current players so i was purely going off Benn Robinson's quote..

 

[Hawko]

Tocc - I maybe interpret them differently as I have spoken to a couple if players including one in the wallaby camp currently. Communication is all they go on about. They don't know what's happening next year, they were told and given assurances before they finished the season and those have been broken in the last seven days.

There was factions in the team this year due to the fact foley had been around so long and obviously had a group of players he was tight with that he allowed to speak up over others. The new coach should be an outsider for this reason plain and simple.

As I said earlier, I think sitting round a table and saying "what do you guys want to see happen?" even if not a word is actually put to use will do more for player moral and desire round Moore park than just about anything over the last twelve months. The players obviously feel like the organisation doesn't respect and care about them, leave it that way and it's a very tough ask for any coach with any reputation to expect the players to put their bodies on the line.

Good feedback, WJ, but it doesn't fill me with joy, especially the bit about an in and out group. I prefer your positivity thread to lift my spirits.

 

[Gnostic]

When I suggested a cleanout and culture change was required at the Tahs 2 years ago now I was met with a lot of negative comment and a few insightful comments.

This is more of the same from the Tahs the big difference is it is being seen and aired in public.

The Tahs need to totally rebuild. This really is their last chance IMO, if they don't produce the good in terms of actual play (on top of making the finals which will take care of itself if they get the first point right) they will collapse totally. They will have the benefit of the dead cat bouce in fans next year as some of the disenchanted give them another chance with the changes that will be may just in filling those positions that have been made vacant.

So to Robinson (and the other Senior Players) NFJ or new Chairman needs to say, 'You are here to play, and I think it is safe to assume that your goal is to win the competition. With that in mind the board will select a Head Coach/Manager who will then assemble a coaching team that will give the best chance of reaching that goal and playing a brand of Rugby that will expand our supporter base and attract players to our ranks. Thank you for your input, you will be informed before anybody else of who the board selects as the Head Coach/Manager.'

Any player who does not think they can live with that is free to terminate their contract. The players have been fundamentally let down by poor structures for years at the Tahs, and they are now too close to the problems and have been part of them, willing or unwilling (perhaps unknowing would be better) and hence really are not in a position to comment.

 

[Bardon]

I don't believe that the players should have a say in who the next coach should be because most 'Tahs supporters want the new coach to make major changes at the franchise. If they are to do that they're going to step on some toes, players included and players who feel like they've picked the coach might decide they can get rid of him too when they don't like the tough calls he's making for the long term benefit of the 'Tahs.

I do think the players should be kept fully informed about who's in the running and who has a serious chance of getting the gig. Also they should definitely be consulted about what they felt went wrong this year and any suggestions they have to correct mistakes or improve processes. I think a major thing that needs to happen once the new head coach is in place is to have a clear the air get together with players and coaches where everyone can speak freely.

 

[It is what it is]

Snip
I do think the players should be kept fully informed about who's in the running and who has a serious chance of getting the gig. .

There is no way the Waratahs players should be aware of who is in the running and who has a chance of getting the gig.
You are playing with the careers of the Coaches applying, some or all of whom could be working and/or be contracted elsewhere and the confidentiality of their application should be respected 100%.
There will probably be other coaches who haven't applied, but rather have been approached by the Waratahs.
Actually it would be a good test of the integrity of the Waratahs to see if they can keep it confidential and not leak it to anybody, let alone the players.
Players play, Coaches coach, and Administrators administrate.

 

[waratahjesus]

What confidentiality? The force had a short list in the paper, jake white was touted before he signed, ewens application in Qld was in the papers. What a load of shite that there playing with careers, there applying for a job with public implications, not getting said job doesn't destroy them.

 

[It is what it is]

What confidentiality? The force had a short list in the paper, jake white was touted before he signed, ewens application in Qld was in the papers. What a load of shite that there playing with careers, there applying for a job with public implications, not getting said job doesn't destroy them.

I didn't mention any other Super Team WJ, but you are comparing water melons with golf balls.
You are also confusing the job interview process with the job role.
- Ewen was out of a job (sacked in Sept 09 from Stade Francais) when he was announced as Reds coach in Oct 2009. He wasn't contracted or working elsewhere.
- The Reds kept Richard Graham's appointment confidential until he resigned from the Force in April for 2013.......Integrity!!!
- The Force were interviewing prospects who were from either within the Force, or out of work, or were willing for their candidacy to be made public.

There is no difference in going for a coaching job or for any other employment role when it comes to confidentiality of the process.

What if you were to apply for a new job - would you be happy for it to appear in the media and for your current employer, work mates, clients and customers etc all to read about it in the media?........good luck going back to that job, if you miss out on the other one you were after.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Actually it would be a good test of the integrity of the Waratahs to see if they can keep it confidential and not leak it to anybody, let alone the players.
Players play, Coaches coach, and Administrators administrate.

Having in mind what has been happening at the 'Tahs this season and in particular the interview which Jason Allen gave with Greg Growden yesterday, Iiwii, are you suggesting that what he has been doing merits the description "administrating"?
.

 

[todd4]

- The Reds kept Richard Graham's appointment confidential until he resigned from the Force in April for 2013...Integrity!!!

Eh? you're re-writing history there. Graham did not resign he was sacked by the Force when it was revealed he had had signed with the Reds.
The Reds signed the coach from another team only weeks into the season thereby doing a good job of fucking the Force's entire season. Integrity?? FFS!

 

[waratahjesus]

It is what it is - you can rewrite history all you want. I have not known a coaching position to not be public and full of media "leaks" in the last 20 years in any professional sport. If your suggesting there is integrity in what graham or foley did then good luck to you sir. Also your assumption that some "were willing for their candidacy to be made public." is based on what exactly?

I work in an industry that is small and full of contracts that are discussed, dissected and talked about at length. If I apply for any job, most people I know in the industry are aware of it within a day or two, it's the nature of the beast. Every decision I enter into is therefore done knowing the reality of the situation.

Do you really think the Tahs coaching position after the year that they have had and the media scrutiny is all of a sudden going to be a matter for behind closed doors? The club is bleeding and it's being played out in public. If any coach is stupid enough to believe he is going to have privacy while applying for the position then there not smart enough to get the job.

 

[Rugrat]

H

I think we are talking at cross purposes. I am not surprised that people misinterpret what I mean by "development coach" because it is a term that has virtually no currency in rugby.

Let me explain in what way I consider Louden differs from the other coaches mentioned. Almost a decade ago he established the Elite Development Squad (EDS) system at Sydney Uni. As far as I know it was a quite fundamental innovation at club level with a very strong focus on physical conditioning through heavy weight training. Largely because of its implementation Sydney Uni has been producing more professional rugby players than any club in the world.

Since he came back to Uni last season he has implemented an expanded version of the EDS by establishing an additional Wider Training Group (WTG), so well over a hundred Grade and Colts players have been involved in a professional style training regime. There has been a much greater focus on skills acquisition. With over 30 Uni players involved in Super or national Sevens programs Louden had to rely on young unknown players to make up his First Grade squad. Colts age players and others who had previously played Fourth Grade became regular top graders. At this stage of the season Super players are coming back to the Club but without exception they have been developed through the EDS program set up by Louden.

Just how comprehensive is the development program is demonstrated by the fact that Uni leads the points table in each of the 3 lower Grades and the 3 Colts Grades.

I do not believe there is a better developer of players in Australian Rugby than Todd Louden.
.

Hi Bruce, I would throw a chap by the name of Gavin Head into the mix for one of if not the best development coachs in Australia. Gaven resides in Brisbane so you all may not be aware of him, but the work he has achieved at Sunnybank has been remarkable. He has put in place programs through the junior club and senior club that has yielded fantastic results for sunnybank in Colts, all senior grades and total domination of the junior representative teams. In addition and in my opinion just as importantly for a director of rugby he has developed some wonderful coaching talent. He understands both 15 and sevens rugby which is very important as we shall see 7s rugby continue to be an important pathway and global sport in its own right. From a player development, program development and coaching point of view I think he has one of the best rugby minds in Australia. cheers

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Having in mind what has been happening at the 'Tahs this season and in particular the interview which Jason Allen gave with Greg Growden yesterday, Iiwii, are you suggesting that what he has been doing merits the description "administrating"?
.

On the subject of that interview, I had to read it through a few times to get past the feeling that Grumbles was having a lend of us, and had just made the lot up. I am still undecided actually - that has to be the strangest interview published in a long time.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

There was factions in the team this year due to the fact foley had been around so long and obviously had a group of players he was tight with that he allowed to speak up over others. The new coach should be an outsider for this reason plain and simple.

Foley likes factions. He plays favourites. He is a political schemer. Source: indirectly, a most senior Tah.
Lets see if the Force dont implode under his weight.
Was it a coincidence that BamBam went to the Brumbies only days before Foley went to the Force?

 

[What2040]

H

Hi Bruce, I would throw a chap by the name of Gavin Head into the mix for one of if not the best development coachs in Australia. Gaven resides in Brisbane so you all may not be aware of him, but the work he has achieved at Sunnybank has been remarkable. He has put in place programs through the junior club and senior club that has yielded fantastic results for sunnybank in Colts, all senior grades and total domination of the junior representative teams. In addition and in my opinion just as importantly for a director of rugby he has developed some wonderful coaching talent. He understands both 15 and sevens rugby which is very important as we shall see 7s rugby continue to be an important pathway and global sport in its own right. From a player development, program development and coaching point of view I think he has one of the best rugby minds in Australia. cheers

Mate, Head is just that , all big Head. Pretty easy job to admin rugby, implement junior programs etc etc when you have a bucketfull of $$$$$ at your disposal

 

[It is what it is]

Having in mind what has been happening at the 'Tahs this season and in particular the interview which Jason Allen gave with Greg Growden yesterday, Iiwii, are you suggesting that what he has been doing merits the description "administrating"?
.

No BR

 

[It is what it is]

Eh? you're re-writing history there. Graham did not resign he was sacked by the Force when it was revealed he had had signed with the Reds.
The Reds signed the coach from another team only weeks into the season thereby doing a good job of fucking the Force's entire season. Integrity?? FFS!

todd4, not re-writing history, just laying it out as it happened.
In April, Reds sign Graham for 2013 >>>Graham let's Force know he won't be around for 2013 >>> Force decide to sack Graham during season 2012.
Read more about how to do it;
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/rugby-gold/reds-in-great-coach-heist/story-fnbyu1ln-1226335212346

 

[I like to watch]

Tocc - I maybe interpret them differently as I have spoken to a couple if players including one in the wallaby camp currently. Communication is all they go on about. They don't know what's happening next year, they were told and given assurances before they finished the season and those have been broken in the last seven days.

There was factions in the team this year due to the fact foley had been around so long and obviously had a group of players he was tight with that he allowed to speak up over others. The new coach should be an outsider for this reason plain and simple.

As I said earlier, I think sitting round a table and saying "what do you guys want to see happen?" even if not a word is actually put to use will do more for player moral and desire round Moore park than just about anything over the last twelve months. The players obviously feel like the organisation doesn't respect and care about them, leave it that way and it's a very tough ask for any coach with any reputation to expect the players to put their bodies on the line.

Then why don't the players just ask the player Representative on the Board, what is going on if that's all they are after.
After all, he did play with most of them and is the acting Chairman ATM.
You can't convince me that some senior players don't believe they deserve input into who their new boss will be.
Wouldn't we all!
It be awful for them if the new guy didn't understand that as long as they did some good things each week, it didn't matter who actually won the game.If such a narrow minded individual obsessed over the final score each week, they could very well ruin the culture in the joint that has taken years to nurture.

 

[I like to watch]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...outine-no-laughing-matter-20120803-23ko0.html
Kearns is on the sub committee that is appointing the new coach, and he is promoting Gaffney as the best candidate in his spot on Foxtel?
Who appointed him on the sub committee?
It's says a lot about the current Tah's board that Al Baxter is the interim chairman.How many years business experience can he possibly have?

 

[Forcefield]

Foley likes factions. He plays favourites. He is a political schemer. Source: indirectly, a most senior Tah.
Lets see if the Force dont implode under his weight.
Was it a coincidence that BamBam went to the Brumbies only days before Foley went to the Force?

Doesn't that description of Foley apply to most Waratahs big wigs?

David Pocock had decided to go to the Brumbies a long time before any coach was announced and Foley's name even cropped up. I have no idea why Dave prolonged not announcing it. Maybe he was giving the Force the chance to pull a big fat rabbit out of the hat. All the Force could manage was a shrew.