2014 IRB Junior World Championship – New Zealand

[qwerty51]

England will romp home in the final I suspect, no offense to the Boks but beating NZ at u20 level isn't that big of a deal now. NZRU looks even more short sighted after they refused to play Australia pre-tournament. Would've loved us to get a crack at them, I'm sure losing to Australia would finally be the nail in their coffin to wake them up.

 

[PaarlBok]

England will romp home in the final I suspect, no offense to the Boks but beating NZ at u20 level isn't that big of a deal now. NZRU looks even more short sighted after they refused to play Australia pre-tournament. Would've loved us to get a crack at them, I'm sure losing to Australia would finally be the nail in their coffin to wake them up.

When last did any team beat their u20 Baby Blacks in NZ?

 

[qwerty51]

Not sure why being in NZ has to make it so special? Hardly home town advantage in a tournament and no crowd support. You took apart their set-piece where NZ had one of the worst in the tournament. That's where you got your dominance, McKenzie and Li tore SA to shreds and kept them in the game. Earle is better than both and good luck getting that physical, forward dominance over England. The 1st half of their match against Ireland their forwards played like the All Blacks. Pace, skill, power. The Boks forward can match the physicality but not the pace nor skill from what I've seen.

37-20 to England.

The NZ u20s are on a downward path, after winning something like 4 in a row they now haven't won the last 3 and haven't made the final in the last 2. NZ is the same boat as us in terms of Junior development but slightly better with the ITM Cup. SA is more immune because they have a better junior pathway (Vodacom Cup etc.) The sooner SANZAR implements an u20 tournament the better.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I have a feeling that the final will not the one sided affair for the Soap Dodgers that some are predicting.

The baby bokke were lucky to win the semi against the baby Darkness, but you make your own luck, and the Bokke took chances offered to them and completed their mission.

The Bokke have had two very tough games against the Darkness and were also pushed very hard by a physical Samoa. They have been toughened up as the tournament has progressed.

The Soapies were pushed by the Men in Gold but not too hard that their victory was ever in doubt, similar to a lesser degree with Los Pumas. They were in cruise control in their Semi against the Paddies.

The Bokke will be bringing a size and physicality to the final that Soap Dodgers haven't seen so far in this tournament, and probably not in the U20 6N either.

Lastly the Bokke hate losing at anything. The English have made losing an artform.

I have the Bokke winning in a real arm wrestle by <7 points.

What is the NZ weather forecast for Friday? That may also have a hugh impact on the match outcome.

 

[PaarlBok]

Not sure why being in NZ has to make it so special? Hardly home town advantage in a tournament and no crowd support. You took apart their set-piece where NZ had one of the worst in the tournament. That's where you got your dominance, McKenzie and Li tore SA to shreds and kept them in the game. Earle is better than both and good luck getting that physical, forward dominance over England. The 1st half of their match against Ireland their forwards played like the All Blacks. Pace, skill, power. The Boks forward can match the physicality but not the pace nor skill from what I've seen.

The NZ u20s are on a downward path, after winning something like 4 in a row they now haven't won the last 3 and haven't made the final in the last 2. NZ is the same boat as us in terms of Junior development but slightly better with the ITM Cup. SA is more immune because they have a better junior pathway (Vodacom Cup etc.) The sooner SANZAR implements an u20 tournament the better.

You havent answer my question?

 

[PaarlBok]

I have a feeling that the final will not the one sided affair for the Soap Dodgers that some are predicting.

The baby bokke were lucky to win the semi against the baby Darkness, but you make your own luck, and the Bokke took chances offered to them and completed their mission.

The Bokke have had two very tough games against the Darkness and were also pushed very hard by a physical Samoa. They have been toughened up as the tournament has progressed.

The Soapies were pushed by the Men in Gold but not too hard that their victory was ever in doubt, similar to a lesser degree with Los Pumas. They were in cruise control in their Semi against the Paddies.

The Bokke will be bringing a size and physicality to the final that Soap Dodgers haven't seen so far in this tournament, and probably not in the U20 6N either.

Lastly the Bokke hate losing at anything. The English have made losing an artform.

I have the Bokke winning in a real arm wrestle by <7 points.

What is the NZ weather forecast for Friday? That may also have a hugh impact on the match outcome.

Handre Pollard will play a massive role in this final. I have full confidense in him, he have BMT big time and if we get our share of possension and we defend well, we'll win it.

 

[tranquility]

England will romp home in the final I suspect, no offense to the Boks but beating NZ at u20 level isn't that big of a deal now. NZRU looks even more short sighted after they refused to play Australia pre-tournament. Would've loved us to get a crack at them, I'm sure losing to Australia would finally be the nail in their coffin to wake them up.

This is very arrogant. How could the Bokke have done anymore?

The Final will be played by the two best teams, and I can't wait to see it.

 

[qwerty51]

You havent answer my question?

Because it's stupid? This is the first time NZ has hosted the tournament.

This is very arrogant. How could the Bokke have done anymore?

The Final will be played by the two best teams, and I can't wait to see it.

Not saying they could've, just calling it how I see it. England are the far more impressive team from what I've seen. SA might not have lost but they look exposed against agile outside backs - lots of big units that struggle laterally. England do not have a weakness from what I've seen and are in the best position to counter the Boks strength.

Btw kind of ridiculous that 3 backs and 2 wingers at that make the shortlist for POTY. Where's the reward for the fellas that make them look good? Think McMahon is incredibly unlucky and Staniforth too. Maro Itoke and Gus Jones for England have been exceptional.

 

[PaarlBok]

Because it's stupid? This is the first time NZ has hosted the tournament.

You do know there were u19/21 before the current u20 format?

and its not a stupid question, think long and hard Boet and answer me.

to win in NZ against any NZ rugby team is massive, to do it twice is even better.

I'll take that any day even if we lose in the final against the Poms.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

What about Les Frogges? It is a little ironic than the boys will play each other the day before the men do likewise in a full blooded Test in Sydney.

I admit to not watching Les Blues play so far in this tournament. If any of their games were recorded via series link on the IQ, they have been deleted to make space for silly vampire time-traveling forensic pathologist detective period costume murder mysteries that La Jarse so desperately needs to watch 200 times each. Therefore I have no idea about their chances, strengths and weaknesses, tactics and probable game plan.

I do have faith that our boys will do bloody well against them regardless, and fully expect them to bring the chocolates home.

 

[qwerty51]

Maybe in the past but like I have been explaining to you this is not a typical NZ side, they've been quite poor. The fact that the Australian schoolboys have beaten them 2 of the last 3 years tells you this cohort of theirs isn't that great.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

When last did any team beat their u20 Baby Blacks in NZ?

Not U20's but the NZ U23's were beaten in NZ on 13 May 1973.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1613


In the olden days, the New Zealand Rugby Team used to play the occasional game against the Junior New Zealand Rugby Team. In those days "Juniors" were under 23's.

If you ever need to get a drink out of a feisty Kiwi, a fairly easy beer can be won over the how many times they have lost to the New Zealand Juniors.

Answer = Once. NZ Juniors 14 NZ 10 on 1 August 1973 at Carisbrook. "House of Pain" yeah right. Not that day.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1657

 

[qwerty51]

If Kellaway gets a hattrick he will become the All Time highest tryscorer in the u20s. Impressive for his first tournament, he's certain to break the record next year or even the next.

 

[Dan54]

I pretty impressed with that Baby Bok team, seems a lot of skill as well as size about it, ok Baby Poms are bloody good to, and maybe favourites for final, but it sure no given. I don't think this Baby Black team is as poor as Gwerty thinks (mind you Gwerty dislikes most kiwi teams, and has been suggesting the demise of NZ teams and players regularly), I think they were just outplayed by a good team. As I said in earlier post, I not really upset if NZRU (or ARU) don't spend a lot of time and money on trying to win tournament as team basically comes together for a month and then disbands. I truly think these young players develop more plating in club/ITM rugby etc against a few old heads!!

 

[Dan54]

In the olden days, the New Zealand Rugby Team used to play the occasional game against the Junior New Zealand Rugby Team. In those days "Juniors" were under 23's

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1657

In those days they also had u21s that were NZ colts!!
In those days when touring team came you could watch games against, All Blacks, Juniors, Maori All Blacks though the colts only played age grade teams I think.
Yep and I remember the day ABs lost to the juniors HJ

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Not U20's but the NZ U23's were beaten in NZ on 13 May 1973.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1613


In the olden days, the New Zealand Rugby Team used to play the occasional game against the Junior New Zealand Rugby Team. In those days "Juniors" were under 23's.

If you ever need to get a drink out of a feisty Kiwi, a fairly easy beer can be won over the how many times they have lost to the New Zealand Juniors.

Answer = Once. NZ Juniors 14 NZ 10 on 1 August 1973 at Carisbrook. "House of Pain" yeah right. Not that day.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1657

Also lost to NZ Maori in Rotorua & one of the two invitational XV's put together for Colin Meads' farewell matches in Auckland & Wellington, the latter of which I was fortunate enough to attend. Too young to accompany the old man & eldest brother under the stands for the aftermatch, though. Dad always claimed that future-PM Rob Muldoon bumped him at the bar, spilled both their drinks & had a flunky pay for the refills.

 

[PaarlBok]

Not U20's but the NZ U23's were beaten in NZ on 13 May 1973.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1613


In the olden days, the New Zealand Rugby Team used to play the occasional game against the Junior New Zealand Rugby Team. In those days "Juniors" were under 23's.

If you ever need to get a drink out of a feisty Kiwi, a fairly easy beer can be won over the how many times they have lost to the New Zealand Juniors.

Answer = Once. NZ Juniors 14 NZ 10 on 1 August 1973 at Carisbrook. "House of Pain" yeah right. Not that day.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1657

Thanks for this. Just prove my point. You simply dont get something like an ordinary NZ rugby team, even more at home.

 

[EatSleepDrinkRuck]

to win in NZ against any NZ rugby team is massive, to do it twice is even better.

The BebbeBokke deserve a lot of credit beating NZ in NZ, between the very vocal crowd and some god-awful refereeing they still managed to produce a result.

 

[en_force_er]

Not U20's but the NZ U23's were beaten in NZ on 13 May 1973.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1613


In the olden days, the New Zealand Rugby Team used to play the occasional game against the Junior New Zealand Rugby Team. In those days "Juniors" were under 23's.

If you ever need to get a drink out of a feisty Kiwi, a fairly easy beer can be won over the how many times they have lost to the New Zealand Juniors.

Answer = Once. NZ Juniors 14 NZ 10 on 1 August 1973 at Carisbrook. "House of Pain" yeah right. Not that day.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1657

So for clarity, NZ Juniors both beat the ABs and lost at home in the same year?

Talk about an inconsistent season.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^^ Apologies. the game the NZ Juniors lost in NZ was in 1972 not 1973. My typo in the OP.

No disgrace per se as they lost to the NZ team.

The wow was that the Juniors beat the full blown NZ team in 1973.