Reds 2015

[Train Without a Station]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-waratahs-comes-to-a-head-20140619-zsf06.html

The article has Pulver quoted saying the following

on JOC (James O'Connor):

"We only provide top-up agreements to players who have played fairly continuously in Australian rugby," he said.

"Having discontinued James's relationship [last year], it's not appropriate. He would need to come back, if he chose to, and play for a period of time before we would be prepared to consider an ARU top-up agreement with him."​

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on Karmichael:​

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"not contemplating an ARU relationship with Karmichael Hunt"​

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Now I can live with them offering no top up to Hunt on the basis we already are offering top ups to other players in his position for 2015. While Hunt could be better, a player's value is only reflective of demand and if you have players under contract in the same position, demand is low. That sucks but those are the financial realities.​

​

However, if it is based on the same reasoning as JOC (James O'Connor) then that is a bullshit double standard considering they were happy to break that rule for Israel Folau 18 months ago. At this stage I am happy to give them the benefit of the doubt but we'll see.​

 

[Wilson]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-waratahs-comes-to-a-head-20140619-zsf06.html

The article has Pulver quoted saying the following

on JOC (James O'Connor):








on Karmichael:













Now I can live with them offering no top up to Hunt on the basis we already are offering top ups to other players in his position for 2015. While Hunt could be better, a player's value is only reflective of demand and if you have players under contract in the same position, demand is low. That sucks but those are the financial realities.





However, if it is based on the same reasoning as JOC (James O'Connor) then that is a bullshit double standard considering they were happy to break that rule for Israel Folau 18 months ago. At this stage I am happy to give them the benefit of the doubt but we'll see.

Yeah the rumour I saw was they wanted Hunt to go to the Rebels to draw in AFL fans, if him getting a top up was contingent on that then it's bullshit. If it's just general hesitance with top ups I understand being a lot more reserved so close to the world cup.

At least it looks like the Reds have been well aware they weren't going to get any help on O'Connor and potentially Hunt, so this hopefully won't have an effect on the negotiations.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yeah exactly, they were happy to help the Waratahs to secure Folau without expecting him to go to Melbourne.

If it's because they have To'omua at 12 on a top up, Folau at 15 on a top up, Beale, McCabe and Lilo all on top ups contracted until the end of 2015 than fair enough.

 

[kiap]

they were happy to break that rule for Israel Folau 18 months ago. At this stage I am happy to give them the benefit of the doubt but we'll see.

Brumbies got Speight, Tahs got Izzy. I'm glad we have got them both for Australia, but neither were signed Wallabies and I think they got ARU money.

Saying that, Pulver probably can't afford that sorta thing anymore from here on. Which is fair enough, I s'pose.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Not really. There was the same financial issues when they signed Izzy. As stated, you are governed by what you already have on contract but to say they won't help attract players now is a double standard.

 

[qwerty51]

Was Pulver involved in Folau's deal? Folau was signed in November 2012 and Pulver only officially took reigns in 2013.

 

[Braveheart81]

Part of Folau's ARU deal is the 3rd party arrangements. I have no idea what Foxsports are paying but that would be a big part of it. Same with Quade Cooper (notice how they're the two players that feature on the Rugby Club intro etc. and are regular panelists/interview targets).

Asics as a major sponsor also has their rugby ambassadors. Folau, Horwill and Moore are currently in those positions and that would form part of their topups.

I'm guessing the ARU has exhausted the 3rd party options they can easily provide right now.

 

[Scotty]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-waratahs-comes-to-a-head-20140619-zsf06.html

The article has Pulver quoted saying the following

on JOC (James O'Connor):

​

​

on Karmichael:​

​

​

​

​

Now I can live with them offering no top up to Hunt on the basis we already are offering top ups to other players in his position for 2015. While Hunt could be better, a player's value is only reflective of demand and if you have players under contract in the same position, demand is low. That sucks but those are the financial realities.​

​

However, if it is based on the same reasoning as JOC (James O'Connor) then that is a bullshit double standard considering they were happy to break that rule for Israel Folau 18 months ago. At this stage I am happy to give them the benefit of the doubt but we'll see.​

It is bullshit how much The Tahs a favoured by ARU topped ups to their players.

Tuqiri, Rogers, Tahu, Folau - all topped up before playing one second of rugby.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Wasn't Sailor also?

 

[Scotty]

And before that comment is jumped on 'there is not the same money anymore' style.

The point is that there is a system that allows this inequality in funding to different super teams. The ARU should not favour one team over another, which is clearly occurring at the moment.

Better system would be to contract all Wallaby eligible players to the ARU, but provide each super club with the same top up funds that they can use as they like with these players (obviously only for Aus eligible ones though).

 

[Scotty]

Wasn't Sailor also?

Yes, but I conveniently ignored that since the Reds had him first.

 

[Jets]

While I'm a passionate QLD fan I'm pretty happy Folau got an ARU top up. I'm also happy for them not to top up Hunt. If he plays for the Reds for 2 years he'll make a huge amount in France if he wants to afterwards.

 

[en_force_er]

While I'm a passionate QLD fan I'm pretty happy Folau got an ARU top up. I'm also happy for them not to top up Hunt. If he plays for the Reds for 2 years he'll make a huge amount in France if he wants to afterwards.

Exactly. We don't need TOO MANY top ups because players know that if they perform internationally for us for a season or two there's big pay cheques waiting overseas for the rest of their days.

What constitutes too many tops ups though? That's a point of discussion.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Greater than 23 or 30 I imagine. Considering you are paid $10k a test do you deserve a top up when you aren't in the first choice match day squad?

 

[I like to watch]

And before that comment is jumped on 'there is not the same money anymore' style.

The point is that there is a system that allows this inequality in funding to different super teams. The ARU should not favour one team over another, which is clearly occurring at the moment.

Better system would be to contract all Wallaby eligible players to the ARU, but provide each super club with the same top up funds that they can use as they like with these players (obviously only for Aus eligible ones though).

That might be faire,but not better.

With your model,ARU funds could be used in a bidding war between franchises for a handful of players.
The end result being that 5 or 6 of the highest profile players share the top up pie, instead of the 15 or whatever that currently share the pie.

 

[Ignoto]

However, if it is based on the same reasoning as JOC (James O'Connor) then that is a bullshit double standard considering they were happy to break that rule for Israel Folau 18 months ago.

But Izzy wasn't coming to the table with burnt bridges, a terminated contract or the image of being at HJ's during big games. Folau at the time is/was 1000x more marketable than JOC (James O'Connor) is coming to these negotiations.

James had his top up, but decided there were other more important things in his life than getting it.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Errrr, umm. I was talking about Karmiachael Hunt.

 

[Wilson]

But Izzy wasn't coming to the table with burnt bridges, a terminated contract or the image of being at HJ's during big games. Folau at the time is/was 1000x more marketable than JOC (James O'Connor) is coming to these negotiations.

James had his top up, but decided there were other more important things in his life than getting it.

I don't think anyone is arguing for a top up for JOC (James O'Connor)

 

[Scrubber2050]

Supposedly Link has no love for JOC (James O'Connor) - so would he even figure in Wallaby contention ????

 

[Ignoto]

Errrr, umm. I was talking about Karmiachael Hunt.

My apologies, the way I read it was you were referring to James.