Reds V Chiefs Round 17 Sat 6th June

[redstragic]

and JOC (James O'Connor) is a shadow of what he was a two years ago..

Just on JOC (James O'Connor), watching him get thrown around like a rag doll by the massive Chiefs backs I was wondering if he is too small now in this day of heavy weaponry out wide? He is definitely missing something ATM.

 

[Sword of Justice]

That Chiefs defence was insane. Turner is one of our best players.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I've seen you make a number of completely outlandish posts so far this weekend. Just pure one sentence statements of supposed 'fact' with now attempt to back it up.

And on each time they've been pretty off the mark. He's been our best finisher for 2 seasons. He's never been a stepper or bulldozer. Just a good finisher. And he still has that.

Well said. This bloke that's "lost it" has been probably our best performer in 2015.

And even tonight he still showed his class, like when he really had to stretch to take a Cooper pass out on the wing that many would have dropped, but then was able to beat the first defender and avoid stepping out.

 

[gel]

Hunt and JOC (James O'Connor) didn't play too well tonight. Some of the other reds had good games though.

it's really odd, but a lot of individuals seem to play quite well week in and week out, but it just seems like none of them seem to be aware of each other. And not jus in the reds - it's across a lot of the australian teams.

I just don't think our rugby players are actually that good. The have not got anywhere near the understanding of the game that the NZ and SA players do.

Chiefs defence was good or reds attack just munted?

 

[Intruder]

it's really odd, but a lot of individuals seem to play quite well week in and week out, but it just seems like none of them seem to be aware of each other. And not jus in the reds - it's across a lot of the australian teams.

I just don't think our rugby players are actually that good. The have not got anywhere near the understanding of the game that the NZ and SA players do.

Chiefs defence was good or reds attack just munted?

I agree and IMO it's the type of training and type of players Australian rugby look at and scout for. Australian rugby now have fallen into the England of old where by we fill a number of our teams full of robots or as I would like to call it stats-men. Guys who hit breakdowns make carries but don't have a feel for the game mentally. Two major areas; manipulating the defence and seeing the play unfold.

Instead there is a heap of forwards who run the pill in bad positions, no footwork, no vision, no ball skills and most importantly no understanding of playing the game. Of course I understand they must know there individual roles but you have to bring something to the table other than hitting breakdowns and using the pick&driving option all day.

The backs IMO have been shocking thus far this season. The Reds pack have worked overtime this year. A scrum going forward every week, line outs functioning crisp every week, disrupting opposition ball every week and yet there best source of go forward is when the pick and drive is on or play off 9 for majority of the game. The backs need to step up, Kerevi and Hunt are good off set plays but have no understanding of when to get involved or how to put themselves into positions where they can manipulate the defence or help organise the attack.
There seems to be absolutely no plan off attack on set phase, kick counter attack, shapes of the field. It's been a long few seasons, I'm frustrated and I am willing to say Goodbye to Richard!

 

[biggsy]

1st 20 min I thought the Reds were in for a chance if they kept up the heavy collision and matched the Chiefs.
Chiefs are massive man mountains mobile and can catch.

Loved watching the Reds scrum, best part of there game and best scrum in Aus.... Well done to styles.

 

[dru]

Loved watching the Reds scrum, best part of there game and best scrum in Aus.. Well done to styles.

Scrum and line out what a pair of weapons. (How poor do you have to be to lose with that advantage?) but isn't Stiles "forwards coach" not "set piece coach".

I thought organisation in defence had rare leadership, mostly from Hunt (but is he experienced enough?) and occasionally Slipper. In attack someone earlier described it as "pick and flop". If the individuals in that pack can push the opposition scrum around the park, why can't they do it at the rucks? Or actually penetrating with pick and GO.

 

[biggsy]

Scrum and line out what a pair of weapons. (How poor do you have to be to lose with that advantage?) but isn't Stiles "forwards coach" not "set piece coach".

I thought organisation in defence had rare leadership, mostly from Hunt (but is he experienced enough?) and occasionally Slipper. In attack someone earlier described it as "pick and flop". If the individuals in that pack can push the opposition scrum around the park, why can't they do it at the rucks? Or actually penetrating with pick and GO.

Fair points, the Reds line out and scrum technique is a weapon and the forwards this years have done well in most of the games. Been many 5m scrum advantages and 5 m line out wins turned into try's.

Last night in general play the Chiefs just dominated forwards. There will be a lot of ice at ballymore this morning for recovery

 

[fatprop]

Reds support play on attack is just horrible. It's not that they can't find space, it's just that they are incapable of doing anything with it. Plenty of wide Cooper passes gave his guys oodles of space and time to work with and all they could do was a big fat nothing.

There is a distinct lack of work rate off the ball in the whole side. They all just seem to wait for a wide cut out ball. There is no inside runner, no angles being run.

They have a unit like Cooper who can hit runners, but just don't give him options consistently enough.

Their attack coach has serious issues

 

[fatprop]

Get rid of Turner, he's lost "it". He just can't score if he's marked anymore.

Turner has never been a great unit at beating players one on one, ever.

His skills are about hole running, angles and holding width

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yeah sucks doesn't it

And Stormers?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yeah, I know it isn't easy, but they often had several phases in a row where he was standing way back while there was "headless chook hither-and-thither" runners. Someone has to take some control of it all, and he has a better eye and brain for it than most. As I said, I'm not blaming him for the shambles, but senior guys have to step up sometimes and try to fix the shit! His approach worked 3 -4 years ago, when there was structure and go-forward play, but it doesn't now.

I was disappointed in Quade in the first 5 - 10 minutes when the Reds had all the ball in vefry good field position and he quite clearly directed the forwards to keep it tight. Good scrum though they have, the Reds' forwards have been pretty much powder puff in general play all year. Either Quade just didn't have the heart to be playing last night, or he was implementing a RG game plan to the letter. Either way it was pretty atrocious.

 

[Merrow]

And Stormers?

If that's who we have to play, we'll beat them. Even at Newlands.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I've seen you make a number of completely outlandish posts so far this weekend. Just pure one sentence statements of supposed 'fact' with now attempt to back it up.

And on each time they've been pretty off the mark. He's been our best finisher for 2 seasons. He's never been a stepper or bulldozer. Just a good finisher. And he still has that.

Sorry RR. I can't agree. Turner seems to have lost his top end speed, acceleration and step. He was in space a couple of times last night and just couldn't muster the speed to beat the defense on the outside. Such a pity because he was an excellent player in his earlier years, but seems to have succumbed to the run of injuries he's suffered in more recent times.

 

[RugbyReg]

I don't think anyone is denying he's lost his speed. I'd deny he ever had much of a step though.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

I'd say the Canes will rest players + they have nothing to play for + teh Chiefs are at home.
I think both sides will win.

Other than Ma'a who has to be rested I'd expect Boyd to put his best team out there, not least 'cos there's a good chance their next game will also be v the Chiefs & you'd rather go into that having already beaten them twice than 1-1.

 

[dru]

Fair points, the Reds line out and scrum technique is a weapon and the forwards this years have done well in most of the games. Been many 5m scrum advantages and 5 m line out wins turned into try's.

Last night in general play the Chiefs just dominated forwards. There will be a lot of ice at ballymore this morning for recovery

You don't often get a good understanding of the defence organisation on TV. Camera angles are often too tight to see overlaps and positional details wide of the ruck. How did the defence organisation look to those who were there?

 

[Pfitzy]

Love how people are climbing into Turner when the problems all exist closer in

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Embarrassing and cringeworthy performance that was bloody hard to watch.

Massive changes are needed in Banjoland, more in administration and coaching rather than the playing roster, and it has to happen for the benefit of Australian Rugby and it needs to happen soon.

We need to have a healthy tribal respect/hatred for things Red. At the moment all I feel is pity and sympathy.

 

[Gnostic]

Get rid of Turner, he's lost "it". He just can't score if he's marked anymore.

I don't see anything more or less (a bit less speed since now that he is old ) from Turner than he ever has produced. He is a straight finisher only, he isn't and never has been a winger who can beat defenders either through stepping, dummying or power. He needs players AND STRUCTURES inside that can put him in space. He is still a more reliable performer than CFS, just doesn't have the upside potential.