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Pumas vs Wallabies, 25th July 2015, Mendoza

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Wendell

Stan Wickham (3)
Yeah but if he needs a full shoulder reco then he wouldn't be back in time for the RWC.

That's the thing about Slipper, he doesn't need rest, he needs surgery.
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That's what I am saying. Pull him in Feb to do reco. Back in 5 mths. Or better still do before or after the 2014 spring tour.
There is stiill time to give him a good rehab/strength block. Just don't play him vs ABs. Would give Sio a good opportunity as well.
Faulkner is the next best LH. He is playing out of position at TH to do a job for the force. Do not go anywhere near Ben Robinson......incredibly lazy player.
 
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TOCC

Guest
That's what I am saying. Pull him in Feb to do reco. Back in 5 mths. Or better still do before or after the 2014 spring tour.
There is stiill time to give him a good rehab/strength block. Just don't play him vs ABs.

Do you actually know what surgery he needs and what his injury is or are you just speculating?



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Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
i agree that Cooper is not at his best, but didn't play that badly last week and he has significantly more upside than foley.


I keep hearing this. The problem is, while it may be true, its not being demonstrated. He had a flick pass that came off tonight. Besides that, he ran laterally, a lot.


Hopefully To'omua's back next week, and I would start Speight..


I wouldn't be risking To'omua's health two weeks after failing a concussion test like that, when he has a recent history, does he not?


Pfitzy's player summaries:

Slipper - poor bastard looks broken. Give him a Test off.

Moore - good captaincy. Probably not as involved running the ball as I'd like

Holmes - bit of a pot plant game from him. Held his side up well but not much else to speak of

Simmons - great steal to nullify what could have been a certain maul try from the Pumas. Cleared a couple of rucks well. Solid performance everywhere except the scrum where he wasn't able to hold his side.

Skelton - some rank stupidity mixed in with excellent play. Threatened the gain line consistently, even when he was taken low, his momentum would still roll him on a couple of yards.

Fardy - got into the niggle and produced some good turnovers. Hope his ankle pulls up well.

Pocock - MOTM of course, though like all our forwards was threatened by the step and jink of Argentina's speedy backs. Great game, making a case for him starting in the trenches

McCalman - I really can't understand why, when we were getting cleaned up by an umbrella defence, we didn't start using BennyMac to blow holes in around the ruck. He had a couple of carries where he was disposing of some big humans with relative ease, but we couldn't capitalise. I'd start him against the ABs

Phipps - couple of bad passes, couple of uncharacteristic misses on defence, but also made some great front-on tackles and got the ball away swiftly on most occasions. Not sure about the box kicks. Its not his thing, really.

Foley - one of those bad nights with the boot. Played the "enabler" role well overall, but really needs to fix that plant foot routine if he's going to be at 10 come RWC time. His hands for TK's try were great.

Tomane - good winger's try, but his option taking and communication on defence worries me when presented with multiple attackers. He never seems to take an option, and always looks dithery. I understand him running backwards in a 2 on 1, but in a 4 on 1 (as he was unfortunately exposed to) you need to pick a target and smash him, and trust the cover defence.

To'omua - fuck

Kuridrani - not quite as involved this week due to a lack of To'omua, but supported well and put in some good tackling. You'd think a bloke his size could get the shoulder in harder but the threat of the step seemed to give him pause. Goood try.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - missed some tackles, got skirted on occasion - our outside backs communication really was poor this game, looking from my armchair.

Folau - silly penalty in-goal on the Argie player, but otherwise threatening around the park.

BENCH
TPN - great minutes at the end, particularly scrum leadership
Sio - I think could get a start against the ABs if he trains hard enough. Can scrum, dynamic around the park
Kepu - came on, contributed to the scrum
Mumm - sparky bench run replacing Fardy, but it hasn't sold me on him yet
Hooper - again, missed tackles, but when he latches on he drives blokes back. Some nice hands in the try too. Great reactions.
White - actually put in some decent passes to help finish the game off
Cooper - he'll not want to watch that one again. It was a bit up and down, but mostly down, capped by the YC
Beale - two touches, two try involvements. That's all well and good, but his role as Mr Fixit won't necessarily work when there is a tight game at hand.
 

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
It would be a major surprise if Cheika picked Cooper for the Bled test. Foley was excellent today, except for his poor goal kicking. There's no reason why he can't steer a winning team in the RWC.

It's not our flyhalf that will win or lose the RWC. It's the tight five. We have excellent outside backs. Whether you want a long passer or a facilitator to release them depends on preference. But whoever it is, they have to be in form.

in general i agree. but if you don't have a dominant tight 5 with a 9/10 who can play "percentage" rugby the i think you genuinely need a "point of difference", love him or not QC (Quade Cooper) can make something of nothing, i'm not so certain foley can. its a bit like the carlos spencer conundrum the AB's had in 2003.
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
Just another reason for Dick Graham to be booted. Utterly irresponsible to keep Slipper playing through the Soup.

Good win this morning I thought. Tough, niggly, opposition and we handled them pretty comfortably. Great impact from the bench two weeks in a row. Still lots to work on but we're moving in the right direction.
 
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Train Without a Station

Guest
How was Foley excellent? He ran 45 degrees all night (which I don't consider his fault) and passed on well against an inferior quality opposition.

By no means bad, pretty good but if anybody thinks that's some justification for him being our best option you're dreaming.

I'd be happy if he was retained, but let's be honest, we did dominate and ran in easier tries once we had worn them down.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
It won't be necessarily popular on this forum but I thought Skelton was much improved from last week. A few good hits in defence and I think he sparked our attack a few times with some nice strong runs for good metres.

Yeah - and only 1 stoopid penalty that only cost us 3 points. Vast improvement.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
First off, great stuff to keep Argentina scoreless. Argentina were being cynical as fuck in the breakdown and I hate the diving element to their game. Great to get there, get the points and get out. But we should concede the RWC now - how can we win with poor goal kickers??

Thought our two best were Skelton and Simmons. Got through work, set-piece, especially the lineout held up. Stood up to the Argie tight 5. That steal by Simmons after the Cooper yc is WC winning moment stuff.

Interesting to see Mumm come on for Fardy, it's his running game that got him the praise over in the UK and it looks more powerful, he's as mobile as a backrower and got through work, could possibly start there in the future.

McCalman was very effective when he was on and Pooper worked once again. To'omua has to change his tackling technique or he'll have a very short career. Geez I thought Folau couldn't kick long or kick at all? Could've sworn I saw him boot one 60m and some nice tactical kicks too.

Finally we have a coach who uses his bench tactically and a bench that contributes big time.

James Slipper is hugely concerning. How can he be expected to perform if he has shoulder injuries? He seems to be getting less and less effective. If he gets surgery now I assume he will miss the RWC but he might miss it on form anyway..
 

Lorenzo

Colin Windon (37)
I really like Cooper. But when did he last put 4 solid test performances together in a row? I understand these tests are experimental but last week he threw a behind the back speculator in our own 22. It almost scored 5 for the the boks.

I think Cooper's performances over his career suggest that if we come up against a top 5 side in a must win match he is more likely to have a meltdown than he is to make something from nothing to win us the match.

On the other hand, Foley is a guy that you'd expect could kick well out of hand and at the sticks. His out of hand distance is bloody ordinary and tonight his kicking at the sticks was no better.
He is a tradesman/journeyman. Something I'd happily take at this point if he could kick well.

Who is the country's most reliable goal kicker, playing at least at super rugby level?
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I think we have to do it.

6. Pocock (open in defence)
7. Hooper (open in attack)
8. McCalman

Which isn't anything against Fardy specifically, it's just the way the cards fall.

Apart from anything else doing that buggers the lineout.
In the anything else is the fact that Fardy does a lot the dirty work - I reckon he must be close to first picked every match.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Wait - is this going to be the thing where you say "OH YEAH? WHEN? GIVE ME TIME OF GAME AND VIDEO FOOTAGE!!!"

:)
 
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