Shute Shield 2017

[RugbyReg]

Nobody would debate that the way the NSW NRC clubs are run is sub-optimal, compared to the rest of the clubs who are Super rugby affiliated, but the SS clubs weren't made to sign anything, the proof being that Eastwood didn't.

I doubt Pulver made them sign anything, as has been suggested, and if they did it was actually in their best interests because it gave them control/influence of a key development channel and thus a recruitment tool.

you could somewhat I reckon. Performance for starters. Eagles 2nd, Rays 3rd and the Rams damn close to the finals and on an upward slope.

Plus I reckon the QLD teams went backwards this year. Not just on performance but on identity. No heart to it, it felt. Unlike each of the NSW teams which seemed to have their own identity and connection.

 

[amirite]

you could somewhat I reckon. Performance for starters. Eagles 2nd, Rays 3rd and the Rams damn close to the finals and on an upward slope.

Plus I reckon the QLD teams went backwards this year. Not just on performance but on identity. No heart to it, it felt. Unlike each of the NSW teams which seemed to have their own identity and connection.

I see what you're saying, but that is from a sample size of one.

Usually, the clubs perform much worse and players are much less evenly distributed.

 

[I like to watch]

usually?
Your sample size is hardly better.
Obviously Uni going solo,was hardly best practice.But that's been fixed.
The Rays previous performance was held back with a quota mentality, the Rams were more competitive than results indicated.
Let's see how it pans out in the next few years.

 

[Dave Beat]

Nobody would debate that the way the NSW NRC clubs are run is sub-optimal, compared to the rest of the clubs who are Super rugby affiliated, but the SS clubs weren't made to sign anything, the proof being that Eastwood didn't.

I doubt Pulver made them sign anything, as has been suggested, and if they did it was actually in their best interests because it gave them control/influence of a key development channel and thus a recruitment tool.

I would see the contribution clubs made, whilst not being forced to sign anything was a huge contributor to getting it started and enabling it to happen. If we asked the ARU to foot that bill because the likes of Vic, WA, ACT, were operating within their Super Structure what would have happened. That is not to open a debate, it is a question with regards to how the funding would have happened without the clubs size able contribution.



And as Rugby Reg said - the NSW teams proved worthy competition this year.

In my eyes the club contributions was for the good of the game, imagine removing their investment from the pie.

As I said above - show me both draws and the dates, then we can chat about it, and the moment in all seriousness there is nothing proven to talk about.

Shute Shield sevens anyone??

usually?
Your sample size is hardly better.
Obviously Uni going solo,was hardly best practice.But that's been fixed.
The Rays previous performance was held back with a quota mentality, the Rams were more competitive than results indicated.
Let's see how it pans out in the next few years.

Thats on the money.

 

[AussieDominance]

So there's room to be able to play a full 22 round schedule if they move the season forward and kick off alongside Super Rugby as they frankly should. Which only puts the true intent of this move into perspective. I also note that according tp the ARU survey 97% of participants in the NRC were happy with the structure of the competition and the pathway and keen to participate again if selected. This move puts huge and unfair pressure on those very same players.

Have you ever heard of other sports? It theoretically would be impossible for some of the clubs to gain a ground till basically when they grab it now Mid March/April.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Have you ever heard of other sports? It theoretically would be impossible for some of the clubs to gain a ground till basically when they grab it now Mid March/April.

Apart from Cricket what other sports would cause issue? Even with Cricket you're talking about only four grounds. Sure, not ideal but certainly not unworkable. The solution isn't that complicated. The four clubs that do have issues with accessibility start the season with a series of away games. Then just make the correpsonding games are scheduled to ensure they balance out the the games as the season progresses. All the clubs will still get their 11 home games.

 

[TOCC]

Have you ever heard of other sports? It theoretically would be impossible for some of the clubs to gain a ground till basically when they grab it now Mid March/April.

Let's clarify one thing, Sydney Rugby Union made the decision to reduce the season length from 22 rounds in 2012, 2012 was the first shorterend season and was done so(according to SRU President Rob Milner) to improve the competitiveness of the completion..

2012 was 2 years before the NRC first game, the NRC had no bearing on the shortening of the season, it was a SRU decision and backed by the clubs.. so why now do they think that returning to a 22 round comp will work when it previously hasn't!! Additionally why do they now think it's acceptable to expand the comp and clash with a new tournament, which will ultimately undermine sponsors, fans and broadcaster support??

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Let's clarify one thing, Sydney Rugby Union made the decision to reduce the season length from 22 rounds in 2012, 2012 was the first shorterend season and was done so(according to SRU President Rob Milner) to improve the competitiveness of the completion..

2012 was 2 years before the NRC first game, the NRC had no bearing on the shortening of the season, it was a SRU decision and backed by the clubs.. so why now do they think that returning to a 22 round comp will work when it previously hasn't!! Additionally why do they now think it's acceptable to expand the comp and clash with a new tournament, which will ultimately undermine sponsors, fans and broadcaster support??

Yeah, it's complete bullshit. It's a clear attempt to interfere with the NRC.

 

[Slim 293]

Are the Shute Shield clubs content with the idea that they won't have access to Super Rugby contracted players if the final does clash with the NRC?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Are the Shute Shield clubs content with the idea that they'll be without Super Rugby contracted players if the final does clash with the NRC?

Well, according to a discussion I'm having on fb with Michael Bell (not sure if its the same M. Bell formerly of Parra and now West Harbour) the ARU should look to just move the NRC back to accommodate the SS. You know compromise. The argument completely overlooks that its the SS who want to change the current calendar and while according to him the ARU has been consulted on the changes, it should be on the SS to compromise in order to accommodate their apparent need to return to the 22 round structure. A structure they haven't used since 2011.

 

[Wazza2013]

Yeah, it's complete bullshit. It's a clear attempt to interfere with the NRC.

Yep, agree.

 

[Dave Beat]

Let's clarify one thing, Sydney Rugby Union made the decision to reduce the season length from 22 rounds in 2012, 2012 was the first shorterend season and was done so(according to SRU President Rob Milner) to improve the competitiveness of the completion..

2012 was 2 years before the NRC first game, the NRC had no bearing on the shortening of the season, it was a SRU decision and backed by the clubs.. so why now do they think that returning to a 22 round comp will work when it previously hasn't!! Additionally why do they now think it's acceptable to expand the comp and clash with a new tournament, which will ultimately undermine sponsors, fans and broadcaster support??

I put up a post above with regards to some start and finish dates
In 2013 the SS final was the 14th Sept
In 2015 tge SS finsl wa the 16th Aug
Are you aware why the SS finished about a month eatlier?

Have you seen the SS draw for the 2017 season yet so we can debate about a fact rather some spin

 

[TOCC]

Yes they shifted the season but the season wasn't shortened was it? Shute Shield was shortened long before the NRC inception.
The 2016 SS dates match the QPR draw, it's not an issue in QLD why is it an issue in Sydney?

 

[Highlander35]

Serious question.

If you're playing a double round robin, why would you need 3 weeks of finals over 2? (And 6 teams over 4)

In an uneven season, you err on the side of caution, because the 3rd or 4th best team could have had significantly harder double ups than the 5th or 6th sides, and they then get an opportunity to make up for that.

But for the even situation, the top 4 should be the top 4, barring major injuries and such, and heck, the top team IS the best team.

I dunno, maybe I'm just not Australian enough.

 

[Dave Beat]

Yes they shifted the season but the season wasn't shortened was it? Shute Shield was shortened long before the NRC inception.
The 2016 SS dates match the QPR draw, it's not an issue in QLD why is it an issue in Sydney?

Who is saying it is an issue, seriously get the 2017 Shute Shield draw and show me the problem / issue.

I will do further research becuase this is starting to annoy me;
2011 season 22 rounds starting 1st April - cricket clearly preventing an earlier start back then to. Last 2 years of the SS started in March with clubs working together to navigate around cricket so the NRC could be supported at the back end.

I recall the SS clubs being supportive of the inception of the NRC they even kicked the can to help get it off the ground.

Any way back later with full research - in the meantime go get me the draw so your " issue " can be substantiated.

 

[Dave Beat]

Serious question.

If you're playing a double round robin, why would you need 3 weeks of finals over 2? (And 6 teams over 4)

Lets hope Soup doesnt revert to that otherwise it will be Kiwi teams only

i get your point, but being in the finals also captures community support and support is good for rugby.

 

[AussieDominance]

Apart from Cricket what other sports would cause issue? Even with Cricket you're talking about only four grounds. Sure, not ideal but certainly not unworkable. The solution isn't that complicated. The four clubs that do have issues with accessibility start the season with a series of away games. Then just make the correpsonding games are scheduled to ensure they balance out the the games as the season progresses. All the clubs will still get their 11 home games.

Cricket is basically the only sport but your also creating the situation of having Super Saturdays to accomodate the whole club at the one venue in February or whatever ridicoulas date you want to start it. I am not sure if many of the clubs are going to be able to have two grounds available at this stage and if they didn't to get everyone on the ground (grade teams) at normal times you would need to start at 6:45am unless you had lights.

Manly, Norths, Gordon, Randwick obviously will struggle but so will the other clubs that need two grounds.

It's tough enough with the heat in Feb for 7's let alone playing 80 minutes.

 

[Dave Beat]

Yes they shifted the season but the season wasn't shortened was it? Shute Shield was shortened long before the NRC inception.
The 2016 SS dates match the QPR draw, it's not an issue in QLD why is it an issue in Sydney?

2011 22 rounds - from 1st Apr
2012 18 rounds - from 14th Apr (split top 6 / bottom 6 - NSWRU initiative).
2013 18 rounds - from 6th April.
2013 Dec - the announcement of the NRC for 2014.
2014 18 rounds - from the 29th Mar.

2011 - 2013 - long before - you serious, & 2012 was a NSW initiative that clubs didn't like so changed in 2013.

2015 18 rounds - from 21st Mar
2016 18 rounds - from 19th Mar

Those dates surely show some condensing of playing times were required, to accommodated the NRC, and significant work within clubs to navigate around cricket to help make it happen.

I remember there was allot of positive chatter amongst some very avid Shute Shield supported on this very forum - a very high percentage of clubs even contributed financially to help it get off the ground (oops Eastwood didn't and we are going to hang the debate on one club not contributing).

Show me the 2017 Shute Shield draw and we can discuss.

My thought - the Premier Comps, should be working with the NRC so both comps are on the same pathway, I'm just not getting worked up over it when nothing concrete has been put in print.

 

[Quick Hands]

Cricket is basically the only sport but your also creating the situation of having Super Saturdays to accomodate the whole club at the one venue in February or whatever ridicoulas date you want to start it. I am not sure if many of the clubs are going to be able to have two grounds available at this stage and if they didn't to get everyone on the ground (grade teams) at normal times you would need to start at 6:45am unless you had lights.

Manly, Norths, Gordon, Randwick obviously will struggle but so will the other clubs that need two grounds.

It's tough enough with the heat in Feb for 7's let alone playing 80 minutes.

Correct, for example the back fields at Rat Park are used for baseball in summer.

 

[TOCC]

Again Dave, season hasn't shortened due to the NRC, it has however shifted right and seemingly worked..

So a small sacrifice by the clubs to fit in a new tier, which has obvious benefits to the players.. If it worked in 2013, 2014 and 2015, why does it need to change now.. because some club chairmans feel aggrieved?

Shute Shield big wigs need to consider the greater good of Australian Rugby, they are making a small sacrifice to allow and facilitate a new and necessary tier of Australian Rugby, like QLD, ACT, Victorian and West Australian clubs are also making.

Honest question, have the players enjoyed the NRC, the challenge of playing at a higher level and the opportunity to make a career of rugby?