2011 Spring Tour

[pete88]

I really wish this tour wasn't 2 games long. It either shouldn't be happening and the RWC should have been a month later or we should have enough games to try all our options. Hell there's about 4 guys I want to see at 12 alone.

 

[Swat]

4 guys?
I'd be happy to see JOC (James O'Connor), then Taps. Other than that, I know Barnes can do the job there and I've seen enough of Ant to make up my mind.

 

[fatprop]

TPN's lack if hooking was fairly catastrophic in the semi given what the ABs were doing with their second shove.

No hooker strikes for the ball any more, they all walk over the ball.

In the olden days, the hooker had to "hook" everytime with only one foot from a pushing position. (often releasing his openside bind momentarily to tap when the half was to put the ball in to get the timing right)

That change with the big hit, the hooker all of a sudden was required push and the half just rolled it under the hookers feet as the scrum moved forward..

 

[Lee Grant]

In other words the historical hooking contest for the ball, a part of the fabric of the game for a long, long time would have a chance of a comeback without the power hit, which amongst other things can destroy the tunnel, which in turn leads to the scrummie having to put the ball in skew, and the referees turning a blind eye to it because everybody other ref does it and he wants a good mark from his assessor?

Did I leave anything out?

Maybe we should change this and do something to stop the power hit (which incidentally can be done without changing any laws, but let's not go there right now.) Or is it OK to take the death of a fascinating rugby contest lying down and gravitate to league type scrums?

I don't think we should go down the league track, but by all means: call me old-fashioned.

 

[pete88]

4 guys?
I'd be happy to see JOC (James O'Connor), then Taps. Other than that, I know Barnes can do the job there and I've seen enough of Ant to make up my mind.

I know you've ditched him as your profile pic, but you lost all your love for Rob Horne as well? I want to see more of him at 12. Also, I'm not sold on Barnes, he was pretty shit there for me last year. As a general point, just because I've seen them there before doesn't mean they couldn't benefit from playing there again, so I'd like to see Horne, Barnes, Fingers etc get time there and at 13, cos we have no idea about our centres at the moment. I guess Super Rugby will provide some answers.

 

[pete88]

And as far as hooking goes, yes I didn't come down in the last shower even if I'm not an "old timer", I'm aware hookers don't have to hook a ball out of perfectly fair scrum feed like back in the day. However the ball is not fed in to the second row like league even if it's crooked, and some hookers are better at getting the ball back, particularly under pressure. I remember Al Baxter talking about the Japanese guys on the GAGR podcast and how they've perfected quick channel one scrum ball to make up for their lack of bulk. There is still an art to it even if it's diminished, and under pressure some guys are not good enough, TPN has work to do if the RWC Semi was any evidence.

In short, having hookers that can get the ball to the back of the scrum quickly is still important, especially for our crappy front row so the original point that we need to bear that in mind when we select players is a fair one.

 

[Swat]

I know you've ditched him as your profile pic, but you lost all your love for Rob Horne as well? I want to see more of him at 12. Also, I'm not sold on Barnes, he was pretty shit there for me last year. As a general point, just because I've seen them there before doesn't mean they couldn't benefit from playing there again, so I'd like to see Horne, Barnes, Fingers etc get time there and at 13, cos we have no idea about our centres at the moment. I guess Super Rugby will provide some answers.

Don't get me wrong, I still have manwood for Horne, he's a f#cking beast, best 13 in the country by far... which is why I don't want him playing at 12, we've all seen how much moving people around f#cked with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Let's just pick the best in each position and run with it. So, Cooper should be 10, JOC (James O'Connor) should be 12 and Horne should be 13 when all are fit. Although this tour, given our current injury situation, i'd have barnes 10, taps 12, Horne 13 with JOC (James O'Connor) 15 because the difference between JOC (James O'Connor) and our next best FB (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)) is greater than the difference between our next best 12 (Taps). Although that is just my opinion, I'm not a fan of playing defensive or non-ball playing centres (hence why no Fainga love) as I think it goes against everything Australian rugby has stood for i.e. taking the fight to them, playing attacking rugby. FFS why oh why are we picking centers based on defence? Is it because we needed cover for Quade? If so now that he's gone expect us to have a more balanced backline and get back to playing the rugby I love.

I can only hope...

 

[Schadenfreude]

Part of the reason i'm a big fan of Fainga'a. He's about the only back who actually knows what to do at the breakdown.

I did note that Ireland almost completely negated Fainga'a by not running at him. Still I think they accidentally ran into him once in broken play.

I *think* his match stats were 1 tackle - 2 turnovers.

 

[pete88]

Don't get me wrong, I still have manwood for Horne, he's a f#cking beast, best 13 in the country by far... which is why I don't want him playing at 12, we've all seen how much moving people around f#cked with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Let's just pick the best in each position and run with it. So, Cooper should be 10, JOC (James O'Connor) should be 12 and Horne should be 13 when all are fit. Although this tour, given our current injury situation, i'd have barnes 10, taps 12, Horne 13 with JOC (James O'Connor) 15 because the difference between JOC (James O'Connor) and our next best FB (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)) is greater than the difference between our next best 12 (Taps). Although that is just my opinion, I'm not a fan of playing defensive or non-ball playing centres (hence why no Fainga love) as I think it goes against everything Australian rugby has stood for i.e. taking the fight to them, playing attacking rugby. FFS why oh why are we picking centers based on defence? Is it because we needed cover for Quade? If so now that he's gone expect us to have a more balanced backline and get back to playing the rugby I love.

I can only hope...

See this is where I get punished for not having Fox, I see pretty much every minute of Wallaby rugby every year but nowhere near as much Super Rugby. So the best rugby I've seen Horne play is actually at 12, hence why I wanna see more of him there . And at 13, cos it's where every man and his dog says he's best. I just think he could be good at 12 too, perfect balance between distributor and smashing in to contact.

Maybe it's why I think we have no idea who our best centres are and want to see all the possible combinations thoroughly tested - it's me that has no idea who are best centres are and everyone else is way ahead of me. Anyway, I'm definitely going to be watching whatever combination is served up with a lot of interest, and hope to fuck the piggies provide enough decent ball to actually test what they can do.

 

[Slim 293]

I did note that Ireland almost completely negated Fainga'a by not running at him. Still I think they accidentally ran into him once in broken play.

I *think* his match stats were 1 tackle - 2 turnovers.

Unfortunately against the All Blacks in the semi his misreads in defence were costly...

 

[JimboJoe1006]

What is the general feeling regarding the team to play the BaaBaa's - full-strength or developmental? Personally, I hope Deans' starts this new mindset of doing away with the four-year cycle immediately and plays the 1st XV (some development players on the bench). Due to injuries, the squad is developmental enough. I don't agree with some of the views that there are four different 12's to trial. Deans needs to write up a list a number the best players on each position, and pick the team from whose available. On '50/50' calls I agree with picking youth and combinations. Pick the individuals in the team and then develop a game plan around those players, especially the key ones. Not the other way around.

My team:
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper); Turner; Horne; JOC (James O'Connor); Ioane; Barnes; Genia; Samo; Pocock; Hinningbotham; Horwill; Vickerman; Alexander; Moore; Ma'afu.
Tapuai; Phipps; McCalman; Dennis; Sharpe; Slipper; TPN.

Same XV for Wales with a bench of Faainga; Phipps; McCalman; Elsom; Sharpe; Slipper and TPN.

 

[pete88]

Elsom's crocked and not touring isn't he? Can't be arsed to check.

As far as how to treat the tour, I agree every test should be treated as must win, it drives me nuts when people plan for a 6 week period two, three, four years away and paint themselves in to a corner when the time comes, but tour games like Baabaas and provincial sides (as i said earlier, there should be more games this tour) should be a bit more developmental. So I'd like to see a bit of interplay, especially in 50/50 positions. This is of course in the ideal world where we don't go to the other side of the world for one test and an exhibition game.

 

[Hawko]

My team:
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper); Turner; Horne; JOC (James O'Connor); Ioane; Barnes; Genia; Samo; Pocock; Hinningbotham; Horwill; Vickerman; Alexander; Moore; Ma'afu.
Tapuai; Phipps; McCalman; Dennis; Sharpe; Slipper; TPN.

Same XV for Wales with a bench of Faainga; Phipps; McCalman; Elsom; Sharpe; Slipper and TPN.

Vickerman's out injured.

 

[JimboJoe1006]

Ah injuries are even worse than I realised. Sorry guys, rookie error there. In that case, Sharpe moves into XV and Simmons onto the bench, and Dennis retains his bench spot against Wales.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Unfortunately against the All Blacks in the semi his misreads in defence were costly...

I haven't been up to re-watching it - I might have another go tonight - but he got smoked for pace if I recall correctly.

 

[Brumbieman]

I haven't been up to re-watching it - I might have another go tonight - but he got smoked for pace if I recall correctly.

Was that when Rocky was palmed off like a little girl and Fainga'a was left flat footed and had to try to turn and chase? In the lead up to the first try?

 

[DPK]

we've all seen how much moving people around f#cked with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

Unfortunately, we've seen it a bit with JOC (James O'Connor). Here's hoping he finds some consistency.

 

[Brumbieman]

Don't get me wrong, I still have manwood for Horne, he's a f#cking beast, best 13 in the country by far... which is why I don't want him playing at 12, we've all seen how much moving people around f#cked with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Let's just pick the best in each position and run with it. So, Cooper should be 10, JOC (James O'Connor) should be 12 and Horne should be 13 when all are fit. Although this tour, given our current injury situation, i'd have barnes 10, taps 12, Horne 13 with JOC (James O'Connor) 15 because the difference between JOC (James O'Connor) and our next best FB (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)) is greater than the difference between our next best 12 (Taps). Although that is just my opinion, I'm not a fan of playing defensive or non-ball playing centres (hence why no Fainga love) as I think it goes against everything Australian rugby has stood for i.e. taking the fight to them, playing attacking rugby. FFS why oh why are we picking centers based on defence? Is it because we needed cover for Quade? If so now that he's gone expect us to have a more balanced backline and get back to playing the rugby I love.

I can only hope...

So much wrong with that.

First of all, remember 1999? One try conceded in the whole world cup? You think that happened because we played attacking freaks who couldn't tackle? No, Horan and Herbert were almost as good defensively as they were in attack. It goes both ways.
RE Fainga'a, he did play for the Reds...in the centres....they weren't half bad at attacking, right? He may not be Spencer-esque, but he knows his limitations, and how to avoid choking the backline, to give the strike runners a platform to work from. If EVERYONE tries the miracle run, then its headless chook type stuff.

RE taking the fight to them: Surely that also includes smashing seven shades of shite out of whoever comes near you, and making them hurt for every metre? Otherwise you're just a pansy, and you're not taking the fight to them, you're just saying "i'm only good at this, so thats all i'm going to do, I wont bother trying to take the fight to you in ALL areas, even my weakest areas"

 

[Slim 293]

Was that when Rocky was palmed off like a little girl and Fainga'a was left flat footed and had to try to turn and chase? In the lead up to the first try?

It happened more than once... and in the last Tri Nations match which led to tries...

And we're all fully aware of his poor performance last year...

He also had one of the highest missed tackle rates during the Super Rugby...

I think Fainga'a's defence is probably a little overstated, but he's generally more reliable than not...

 

[DPK]

So much wrong with that.

First of all, remember 1999? One try conceded in the whole world cup? You think that happened because we played attacking freaks who couldn't tackle? No, Horan and Herbert were almost as good defensively as they were in attack. It goes both ways.
RE Fainga'a, he did play for the Reds...in the centres....they weren't half bad at attacking, right? He may not be Spencer-esque, but he knows his limitations, and how to avoid choking the backline, to give the strike runners a platform to work from. If EVERYONE tries the miracle run, then its headless chook type stuff.

RE taking the fight to them: Surely that also includes smashing seven shades of shite out of whoever comes near you, and making them hurt for every metre? Otherwise you're just a pansy, and you're not taking the fight to them, you're just saying "i'm only good at this, so thats all i'm going to do, I wont bother trying to take the fight to you in ALL areas, even my weakest areas"

Couldn't agree more.