2022 Bledisloe Cup. Wallabies vs All Blacks

[Bullrush]

He did get lifted past horizontal though, or close to it, 50/50 call that could have been a yellow too.

From my reading of the laws, the issue is really about where the tackled player lands. The lifting past horizontal is probably worth the penalty but because he didn’t land on his head or neck area, it’s not card territory.

I could be wrong about how it’s officiated but I wouldn’t like to see cards handed out for what happened to FF (Folau Fainga'a)…

 

[Bullrush]

Maybe they can crack down on Aaron Smith’s theatrics while they’re at it.

He is LOUD…and high-pitched!! LOL

What are the specific ‘theatrics’ that refs should crack down on?

 

[Up the Guts]

He is LOUD…and high-pitched!! LOL

What are the specific ‘theatrics’ that refs should crack down on?

The backflip he did in the ruck that saw Wright carded? If you don’t like diving, can’t see how Smith doesn’t get on your nerves.

 

[Slim 293]

I called YC when I first saw it too mate, and then when I saw on replay that he never went past horozontal, but wouldn't of been upset if had got carded.

He was definitely lifted past the horizontal… so it’s a penalty at least.

The manner in which he landed meant that it didn’t warrant a card.

 

[Bullrush]

The backflip he did in the ruck that saw Wright carded? If you don’t like diving, can’t see how Smith doesn’t get on your nerves.

LOL The irony of calling it a ‘back flip’ while complaining that he’s over doing it.

Did he stay down and call for medical treatment?

If you go and watch the replay, there is a slow-mo when they are reviewing Swain’s grub act and you can see Smith does seem to get whacked in the head.

 

[Ignoto]

Fair enough.

As I stated in my first post, I hope we see more of these time wasting calls.

From an AB fan view, I am pissed off that Swain wasn’t shown a red for ending another player’s season with a grub act.

I’m also hoping refs crack down on the acting we have seen the Wallabies recently engage in with Nic White a few weeks back and FF (Folau Fainga'a) (Folau Fainga'a) on Thursday.

There is the old joke that soccer is 90mins of players pretending they are hurt and rugby is 80 of players pretending they are not. I’d hate to see rugby move towards soccer in that way….

This is a classic "what about" argument Bull rush.

They're not mutually exclusive. Swain did a shitty thing and the Ref could have kept time off until the ball was kicked (or even consistently followed the need to speed up the game through the matches entirety).

I'd dare say, more time was wasted by an all black walking away with the ball after a knock on or penalty rather than giving it to an Australian player. But that's never cracked down on.

 

[Th0mo]

From my reading of the laws, the issue is really about where the tackled player lands. The lifting past horizontal is probably worth the penalty but because he didn’t land on his head or neck area, it’s not card territory.

I could be wrong about how it’s officiated but I wouldn’t like to see cards handed out for what happened to FF (Folau Fainga'a) (Folau Fainga'a)…

From the GMGs…

Lifting tackles
• World Rugby has provided guidelines for situations where a tackler lifts the player off the ground and their feet pass the horizontal and where the individual lands.
o PK – the player is lifted passed the horizontal and land back on their feet. Even if the player is brought to ground on their feet the action is deemed dangerous in community rugby.
o YC – the player is lifted passed the horizontal and land on side/ back
o RC – the player is lifted passed the horizontal and land on head/neck

Was pretty clearly a Yellow as he went past horizontal but luckily landed on side (aided by FF (Folau Fainga'a) hand breaking his fall).

 

[Derpus]

The mere fact that we have a bunch of Kiwi's on an Aussie forum desperately trying to justify the decision shows, at the very least, that it was highly unusual and controversial.

'Hey bro - if you don't kick it I will award a scrum'. I know English isn't his first language but lets be honest, he coulda just said that rather than ruining the end of a Bledisloe ay.

Lets at least try and let the players decide a match occasionally.

 

[Slim 293]

From the GMGs…

Lifting tackles
• World Rugby has provided guidelines for situations where a tackler lifts the player off the ground and their feet pass the horizontal and where the individual lands.
o PK – the player is lifted passed the horizontal and land back on their feet. Even if the player is brought to ground on their feet the action is deemed dangerous in community rugby.
o YC – the player is lifted passed the horizontal and land on side/ back
o RC – the player is lifted passed the horizontal and land on head/neck

Was pretty clearly a Yellow as he went past horizontal but luckily landed on side (aided by FF (Folau Fainga'a) (Folau Fainga'a) hand breaking his fall).

I stand corrected… definite yellow card.

 

[stillmissit]

I guess the judiciary will decide.

Tragic it's true, but they seem to be less than objective sometimes, I'm thinking of the Hodge tackle in RWC. I thought the outcome was more about putting a stamp on the new directions from Refs. I am hopeful that Swain gets a fair hearing and not a biased one-eyed approach.
If he gets a longish sentence then where to from there? Don't clean out too high in the ruck or too low? Then add or too fast or too big v too small.
We see one-legged tackles all the time and tackles from the side that have made a mess of knees particularly in wet conditions.
I looked at it closely and have no idea whether he is guilty or not I am more concerned about where we are going.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I really don’t want to win at Eden Park, it’ll make Thursday night’s loss even worse. A 10-15 point loss please.

Weird

 

[young gun]

Dan brought up the turning fans off the game...because of time wasting.. I just pointed out fucked decisions like this do the same..

Enough though you had your say enough.. a good game ruined by a shit call that was not required.

I think we should lock the thread this is going no where.

time wasting is the 10 minutes Wales took to put the ball into the last scrum at the RWC. Time wasting is every other scrum that takes 5 minutes because someone has to do their laces up. Time wasting is the team putting the ball into the line out taking 10 minutes to get there. Time wasting is the 15 minutes its takes the TMO to prove that that they are in control not the Ref, etc etc etc etc etc etc, NOT the 30 seconds it took to kick to touch. Get some perspective. None of us have ever seen that done, including you, especially in those circumstances. Sure, there was still a line-out to be contested, or as it turned out, we could have defended against the try, but you Dan, because, as you so often remind us "I lived there, I'm one of yours too" must understand how hard it has been for us to get to at least this stage, and how much pressure rugby is under here, that we could not afford this. The press is full of that one decision and the game, which was actually a cracker, isn't even mentioned. Its just reinforced the view that rugby is a bore-fest that's decided by a pedantic Ref. So please, if you really do have some sense of affinity with us, stop the sanctimonious comments, because everybody knows, you included, that it was a rotten call and as Andrew Mehrtens has said numerous times around referring decisions, its a nonsense to say that they even out over the game because some decisions are made at far more critical times than others and as a result have a bigger impact This was a critical time.

 

[Th0mo]

Tragic it's true, but they seem to be less than objective sometimes, I'm thinking of the Hodge tackle in RWC. I thought the outcome was more about putting a stamp on the new directions from Refs. I am hopeful that Swain gets a fair hearing and not a biased one-eyed approach.
If he gets a longish sentence then where to from there? Don't clean out too high in the ruck or too low? Then add or too fast or too big v too small.
We see one-legged tackles all the time and tackles from the side that have made a mess of knees particularly in wet conditions.
I looked at it closely and have no idea whether he is guilty or not I am more concerned about where we are going.

It’s a new area targeted this year. There must have been some Melbourne Storm style wrestling up north. interestingly nothing in Game Management Guidelines re card levels. Hence Owens caution re weighing actions not injury outcome. The videos they showed us looked very deliberate vs Swain looked reckless. Here’s the guidelines:

Global Law Trial
Cleanout – Targeting the lower limbs of the jackler
Definition
• A player may lever the jackler out of the contest at the ruck but must not drop their weight onto them or target the lower limbs.
Intention
• To reduce injury risk to the player being cleaned out.
Sanction
Penalty- referee to judge the severity of the action.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Mate, I agree that the ref blaming on these forums can be over the top. I really dislike blaming the ref for a loss. I don't blame the ref for this loss (I blame the discipline and yellow cards mostly). But in the case of the Foley time-wasting, I think the noise is justified. it did ruin a good game of rugby. I feel it's okay to be talking about this. Emotions and tempers are high. Sometimes it's better to let it out then hold it in.

If there's one time you can have a whinge then it's when there is a very clearly a decisive decision. Just like the Scottish have the right to whinge about the RWC penalty, this is justified.

For the record, I see both sides, Foley played his part, his team mates noticed something was up but he didn't, that's on him. But I also believe, as do millions of other rugby viewers (non-Aussies) that was a very very tough (and new) call.

There is no need to get on your high horse. Just let people vent.

agree.
A shit call to make but it understand why he made it and foley is round about admitting it to by saying he’d been warned all game.
My main take away is there was a bad decision in game management at the end that overshadowed the fact the wallabies FUCKING played. And they are down a number of men and they can mix it with the best. I watch that replay and I say - shit - we can go far next year. We do have the cattle.
kellaway is an absolutely brilliant rugby player. 15 is solved for me. He has great rugby nous.
We have backfow depth. We have depth at 12. Praise be we have options at 10!

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Bu

time wasting is the 10 minutes Wales took to put the ball into the last scrum at the RWC. Time wasting is every other scrum that takes 5 minutes because someone has to do their laces up. Time wasting is the team putting the ball into the line out taking 10 minutes to get there. Time wasting is the 15 minutes its takes the TMO to prove that that they are in control not the Ref, etc etc etc etc etc etc, NOT the 30 seconds it took to kick to touch. Get some perspective. None of us have ever seen that done, including you, especially in those circumstances. Sure, there was still a line-out to be contested, or as it turned out, we could have defended against the try, but you Dan, because, as you so often remind us "I lived there, I'm one of yours too" must understand how hard it has been for us to get to at least this stage, and how much pressure rugby is under here, that we could not afford this. The press is full of that one decision and the game, which was actually a cracker, isn't even mentioned. Its just reinforced the view that rugby is a bore-fest that's decided by a pedantic Ref. So please, if you really do have some sense of affinity with us, stop the sanctimonious comments, because everybody knows, you included, that it was a rotten call and as Andrew Mehrtens has said numerous times around referring decisions, its a nonsense to say that they even out over the game because some decisions are made at far more critical times than others and as a result have a bigger impact This was a critical time.

But “rugby is in bad shape here and it’s hard for us” isn’t a reason to get that call fundamentally.

 

[stillmissit]

It’s a new area targeted this year. There must have been some Melbourne Storm style wrestling up north. interestingly nothing in Game Management Guidelines re card levels. Hence Owens caution re weighing actions not injury outcome. The videos they showed us looked very deliberate vs Swain looked reckless. Here’s the guidelines:

Global Law Trial
Cleanout – Targeting the lower limbs of the jackler
Definition
• A player may lever the jackler out of the contest at the ruck but must not drop their weight onto them or target the lower limbs.
Intention
• To reduce injury risk to the player being cleaned out.
Sanction
Penalty- referee to judge the severity of the action.

Thomo: Global Law Trial I guess that is Swain out for a long time.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Swain was intentional or reckless. Either way stamp it out. I’m still a bit confused in wrights cars tbh. Not sure thats a yellow.

I think the ABs are in w world of trouble. Backline is unconvincing. Coaching team are absolutey desperate.
Senior management at NZRu must be hurting. Aura is gone

 

[Derpus]

'Aura' is nearly as bad as 'hoodoo'.

 

[young gun]

Bu

But “rugby is in bad shape here and it’s hard for us” isn’t a reason to get that call fundamentally.

I don't understand your comment but I'm probably not going to worry about it either. It was a very bad call and it made a big difference so people are entitled to be angry. The circumstances just make that anger more intense. I'm a level 1 Referee so I understand the difficulties of refereeing, so no further insights there. This wasn't a hard decision to make, he just made the wrong one. He could have so easily handled things differently and the whole narrative today, and for rugby in general, would be better. Maybe the result would have been the same, the All Blacks have done hat plenty of times, but the narrative would have been about the game, not the referee.

 

[Dan54]

The mere fact that we have a bunch of Kiwi's on an Aussie forum desperately trying to justify the decision shows, at the very least, that it was highly unusual and controversial.

'Hey bro - if you don't kick it I will award a scrum'. I know English isn't his first language but lets be honest, he coulda just said that rather than ruining the end of a Bledisloe ay.

Lets at least try and let the players decide a match occasionally.

Yep mate, as I said I understand your disappointment, but a couple of weeks ago South African sites were filled with how Paul Williams was so biased to Wallabies and aloowed them to win, who would of thought it huh, losing fans (and kiwis are not immune) blaming the ref??
But I'm sure you agreed with the Boks supporters?