All Blacks v Poms, Test 1 Auckland

[badabing59]

Just a realist mate, call it how I see it. England are an exceptional side, it's been building since the last WC. 6N runner's up the last 3 times speaks volumes for their consistency, next year they'll hit top gear blitz the World Cup.

Well we'll agree to disagree on the next test, but do agree with you on the WC next year. On their home ground, they will be extremely hard to beat. How they play against Oz and NZ in the EYOT will be an excellent indication of how next year will shape up.
I think the RC may prove to be the undoing of the sthn hemisphere teams next year, way too much rugby played before the RWC

 

[BabyBlueElephant]

They probably did outplay the ABs, but that isn't always enough. We easily outplayed England on last years EOYT but it still wasn't enough.

The question I have is if England couldn't beat the All Blacks when they're playing incredibly poorly AND while dominating them all over the park, then do we think they can beat them when they actually play well?

Next week will be very interesting.

England have beaten beaten the All Blacks, as recently as a year and a half ago 38-21.

 

[Tordah]

Poms will win with their full strength side. 3rd game in a row NZ's pack has been outplayed by England's.

I don't think the English pack was dominant at all yesterday - apart from most of the scrums, obviously. Surprisingly, I thought they were dominant in the backs, with a more threatening midfield and better kicking game.

I hope - and think - the next game will be a more convincing win by the ABs. Julian Savea is badly needed back in the XV

 

[Bairdy]

I don't think the English pack was dominant at all yesterday - apart from most of the scrums, obviously. Surprisingly, I thought they were dominant in the backs, with a more threatening midfield and better kicking game.

I hope - and think - the next game will be a more convincing win by the ABs. Julian Savea is badly needed back in the XV

For a Pommy pack missing a number of first choice players (the likes of Alex Corbisiero, Mako Vunipola, Dylan Hartley, Tom Youngs, Dan Coles, Courtney Lawes, Tom Wood, and Billy Vunipola) to get the ascendancy over, or 'hold their own against' a AB pack with 400+ caps is alarming indeed.

The Wallabies certainly need to do a lot of work to strengthen our pack.

 

[Muttonbird]

You do well interpreting what was in Owens' mind when he said nothing about Fekitoa.

The penalty was against "6 no release".

Messam was nowhere near the tackle either. I think the footage shows May was off the ground partly held by Smith and partly held up by Fekitoa and Barrett. Owens appears to have taken this into account.

As I said before, Yarde's professional foul was totally different.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

What club you tied up with?

Park Ridge Sharks, they're primarily a touch footy club but this year some of the guys decided they wanted a rugby team. Approached a coupla clubs but got knocked back so they've ended up playing league instead (touch being an adjunct of league, at least in these parts). Mostly kiwis & a few PI so they're as likely to have the Chiefs on the big screen as the Warriors.

 

[Dan54]

Yeah, did they approach Logan rugby club? Would of thought we would of welcomed them. Pity to lose them to league. So you not far away from us over there.
Anyway looks like Read and Savea will both be available next week, only decision is whether to play safe with Read and give him another week to get up to speed etc!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Yeah, did they approach Logan rugby club? Would of thought we would of welcomed them. Pity to lose them to league. So you not far away from us over there.
Anyway looks like Read and Savea will both be available next week, only decision is whether to play safe with Read and give him another week to get up to speed etc!

Most of the guys are late-20's or early 30's & footy is for fitness & having a bit of fun with their mates, my understanding is that they approached clubs on the basis of slotting into a comp as a group, which the clubs couldn't really accommodate whereas the Sharks were able to reclaim their spot in the local comp after an absence of a few years. Much to everyone's surprise they've turned out to be a pretty decent side, currently 2nd in their grade & a few teams saying they should've been graded higher to begin with.

Hoping to see JS start next week but I'd prefer KR to be given as much time off as he needs, as much for his long-term good as what he offers NZ rugby short- to medium-term. Even if that means him being with the squad for training but not actually playing up to & if necessary including the 4N & EOYT.

 

[Gnostic]

Messam was nowhere near the tackle either. I think the footage shows May was off the ground partly held by Smith and partly held up by Fekitoa and Barrett. Owens appears to have taken this into account.

As I said before, Yarde's professional foul was totally different.

Messam enters late from the side ABs right hand side of the ruck, and is holding the ball in, hence Owens saying "Black 6 No release". Barret is the tackler and is under May holding on. If there was a quick release it was a try. IMO against most sides that would be a yellow.

 

[Muttonbird]

Smith is underneath.

Otherwise. fair enough, but you can't yellow them all - there were 5 black players involved. Maybe that's what stopped Owens.

Yarde, however, was on his own.

 

[Smooth]

England's near best still couldn't beat a very poor ABs outfit Ha!

Next weeks test will be a different beast for sure ABs by 20+.

Dagg, Messam, B.Smith and Jane might have a hard time making the run-on squad next week, especially Messam, the only time i heard his name is when he got subbed.

 

[TahDan]

England have beaten beaten the All Blacks, as recently as a year and a half ago 38-21.

One game in their last, what, 12 against the All Blacks? The trouble for the poms is they remain too inconsistent against most teams, and against the All Blacks their record is even worse than Australia's.

Success on this tour is absolutely vital if they're any chance of getting the psychological edge necessary to beat the All Blacks at home next year should they face them.

There was an interesting little article in the NZ herald suggesting England aren't all that fit too, so you can bet the ABs will using quick line-outs and restarts every chance they get to run the obviously aerobically challenged poms next week.

Also, whilst it's early days, I've got a lot of faith in Link to have our boys ready come next year, so if England think they don't have to worry about the Wallabies, they're going to be in for a rude shock.

 

[teach]

Dagg, Messam, B.Smith and Jane might have a hard time making the run-on squad next week, especially Messam, the only time i heard his name is when he got subbed.

Ben Smith more likely to be playing than Dagg.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Dagg, Messam, B.Smith and Jane might have a hard time making the run-on squad next week, especially Messam, the only time i heard his name is when he got subbed.

If KR starts Kaino goes to 6 & Messam to the bench, if KR doesn't start then no change. Dagg won't be that bad twice running so will get another go, as will B Smith regardless of whether Savea starts - Jane goes from the 23 if he does, stays at 11 if he doesn't.

The guy under most pressure IMO is Woodcock who did fuck all around the park & not much more at scrum time. Only thing that might save him is the lack of a proven alternative. I'd like to think Woody was poor 'cos his hip's still not 100% but starting to lean towards the notion that he's just past it.

Cruden's probably lucky Bogan didn't have a great night & that he kicked well plus his decision to tap worked out, his general play wasn't flash & he looked seriously short of match play.

Expect the AB to get into the refs ear about England dawdling to the set pieces, we need to up the tempo big time & see if their big guys can go 80 at AB pace.

 

[Ruggo]

I Woodcock gets dropped for Crockett I think the Poms will be skulling warm beer for days in celebration.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

There is no point sugar coating anything. That game sucked badly. Oh sure, purists can go on about tightness and intensity, but they are full of shit. Two things defined that game. Shit handling and kicking the ball away. It was a terrible match.

Expect the AB's to be rusty in game one, but this was a new level. It's like they'd just met each other. Aaron Smith & Jerome Kaino the only plus points. Asumming Read still out, I'd start Kaino at 6 and give Vito a go at 8 - Messam of 2014 just doesn't look like the 2013 version. We need some bulk on the wings too. Assuming Savea isn't fit, we are missing the likes of a Hosea Gear. Dagg deserved to be pulled, but Bogan didn't do any bloody better. Just shithouse all around.

England were England. I don't know if people haven't been watching them (especially NZ herald media) but Lancaster has been building a bloody strong team/squad over the last few years so it didn't surprise me to see them hammer into us. However, for all the praise they are taking, it's worth pointing out that once again, they didn't score a try, and they lost. Against an NZ team that collectively were shit (largely because of the way England played, but there was an element of shooting yourself in the foot as well). Despite Tuilagi looking unstoppable and they new kid Eastmont looking the business in midfield, they couldn't figure out how to score 5 or 7 points. Weird. It felt like they dominated us, but the above 2 points and some other stats suggest otherwise.

I tend not to talk ref's, but Owens deserves a mention (especially as an AB fan). Interesting reading Muttonbird above, but I still think we should have been binned holding them up 1m outside our line. The Nonu one.. well, arguable, had Nonu not pulled, he would have tackled him (if Robshaw had passed), so certainly no certain try, thus not justifiable for mine. As for the "knock ons"... they weren't knock ons, but in both situations the England players had made no effort to actually gather the ball, both were bats of the ball - can you do that? I assumed you could, but Owens was clear that is what he was calling the infringement for. I don't know the rules well enough (I'm a kiwi!) to argue for or against. England got away with plenty of shit as well, so I don't feel so bad for them. Rather hollow feeling of victory though.

Roll on test 2, I'm not predicting the AB's to thrash as many are - we must improve, as we can't get worse. But England will be confident of lifting too.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Nigel you're a dick, clear yellow but why is that different to before?

sorry why was that a yellow? i just saw the highlights and don't quite understand why yarde was carded for that....

 

[Dan54]

You do well interpreting what was in Owens' mind when he said nothing about Fekitoa.

The penalty was against "6 no release".

28:22 is the incident in question.

Gnostic , perhaps you didn't have sound up or have Foxsports coverage, but Owens actually spoke to Fekitoa and said he could see how he thought it was a maul, so in Muttonbirds defence he wasn't interpreting anything, just repeating exactly what I heard ref say. He never mentioned number 6, even on that replay you got there.
I not saying ref was right or wrong, just thats what he said!!

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic , perhaps you didn't have sound up or have Foxsports coverage, but Owens actually spoke to Fekitoa and said he could see how he thought it was a maul, so in Muttonbirds defence he wasn't interpreting anything, just repeating exactly what I heard ref say. He never mentioned number 6, even on that replay you got there.
I not saying ref was right or wrong, just thats what he said!!

Have a listen to the clip. Hard to hear with the commentators jabbering away and I was two seconds off (28:19-28:20), try with headphones. He says "6 no release" and a bit later in response to an obvious question "not a maul" which may the only mitigating factor which could have prevented a Yellow, as he (Owens') with that reply may be indicating he concedes that this could be a reasonable excuse (how the F&^%^ I don't know, I am just grasping at straws why that was not a yellow)

I think it also strange that he picks out 6 as he was last there (and entered from the side) when Smith and Fekitoa never released as the tacklers. But there you go, that is what he says.

I find it interesting that if it was thought to be a maul McCaw never enters, he takes up position behind to defend the next phase.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Have a listen to the clip. Hard to hear with the commentators jabbering away and I was two seconds off (28:19-28:20), try with headphones. He says "6 no release" and a bit later in response to an obvious question "not a maul" which may the only mitigating factor which could have prevented a Yellow, as he (Owens') with that reply may be indicating he concedes that this could be a reasonable excuse (how the F&^%^ I don't know, I am just grasping at straws why that was not a yellow)

I think it also strange that he picks out 6 as he was last there (and entered from the side) when Smith and Fekitoa never released as the tacklers. But there you go, that is what he says.

I find it interesting that if it was thought to be a maul McCaw never enters, he takes up position behind to defend the next phase.

He doesn't say "6", he says another word. Can decipher it myself, but it ends in "ess".

McCaw was just getting back to the line as was Owens.