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Australian Rugby / RA

Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Derpus said:
The shit i don't get was how the legal costs were so damn high for a hearing that went for less than a day and i guess pre-hearing advice. Did they hire Satan himself?
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There was the mediation as well and presumably a large amount of it was advice in advance of cancelling the Force licence.

Still seems very high but that seems to be the way with top tier law firms on big corporate work.
 
Derpus

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Braveheart81 said:
There was the mediation as well and presumably a large amount of it was advice in advance of cancelling the Force licence.

Still seems very high but that seems to be the way with top tier law firms on big corporate work.
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Do nothing and charge a lot for it?

Let's be extravagant and imagine the average billout rate was $1000 ph. At 2.8m that's 2800 hours of billable work. That's a pretty big year for a solicitor, not ONE matter. Smell that smelly smell?
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Derpus said:
Do nothing and charge a lot for it?

Let's be extravagant and imagine the average billout rate was $1000 ph. At 2.8m that's 2800 hours of billable work. That's a pretty big year for a solicitor.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the charge rate for a partner at Clutz was $1,000 an hour. There was probably at least one SC/QC (Quade Cooper) and a junior counsel briefed throughout all of it too.

Surely the huge bill is racked up because there is allegedly a team working on it so the amount racked up multiple thousands every hour.
 
Derpus

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Braveheart81 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the charge rate for a partner at Clutz was $1,000 an hour. There was probably at least one SC/QC (Quade Cooper) and a junior counsel briefed throughout all of it too.

Surely the huge bill is racked up because there is allegedly a team working on it so the amount racked up multiple thousands every hour.
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The partner probably does, but the paralegals, juniors etc wont be and i said average. I supppose the Counsel tips it the other way but two days for an appearance and probably another two in prep probably only adds 100k to your bill (In NSW the highest charge-out rate for Barristers are for tax specialists, the best of which charge roughly 25-30k a day).

A full team spending 2800 hours worth of work on a matter that actually goes for one day plus a conciliation? Doesn't add up.

Edit: and it's not as if the matter was, in the end, overly complicated. It boiled down to the interpretation of a few terms in the contract.

Double edit: i don't even know what point i'm trying to make. Just tired of all the 'lucky country' fuck arsery i see every damn day.
 
Killer

Killer

Cyril Towers (30)
Jimmy_Crouch said:
The problem is people like yourself with little knowledge on these situations making rubbish comments. Financial Statements and Annual Reports are different things. The full financial statements will have 30 pages of notes which most people won't read nor understand therefore like most companies they do not provide them in their annual report. I'm sure you were someone also blowing up about the 'loss' but forgot they they forgave Rugby WA legal debt when clearly it was a vindictive move by Rugby WA putting RA in a lose lose situation. Sure i don't like how they handled the Force being kicked out but from where this code was financially in 2014 these statements are pretty good. BS shows bugger all debt. I'd love to have more cash but I think Pulver has done a pretty good job if you look objectively at the fiscal metrics.

But it is so much easier to be negative than positive. Look at some on the good things in his tenure that will propel on field results moving forward NRC, Aon 7s, SuperW, Super u20s which intern will improve our future cash position.

Next you will say what about twiggy's $50m well if you think that came with no strings and it was going to be a straight up payment to RA then you need to get your head read.

I will email one of the admins a copy of the full statements
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Thanks for your contribution Cameron.
The numbers, as you see them, are not the whole story.
All the information is in the price action. The PA is through the floor, supporters have left, those that remain are hyper critical, no one is playing and no one is watching.
The worse the PA the more they will try to divert attention from issues that will further damage the brand.
In dire times you must be ultra open and transparent or you are doomed.

Btw, Vindictive move by RWA? are you serious, only you could see it that way Cameron.
Also Twiggy's strings would be simply to run the game/business properly. Invest in the future through grassroots, academy's, women's rugby, Sevens etc as he is doing in Perth now. No sign of RA doing anything substantial to fix the foundations.
Also it would not have been just 50m, it would have been far more or simply what was required to fix the situation.
 
Ignoto

Ignoto

Greg Davis (50)
Derpus said:
Edit: and it's not as if the matter was, in the end, overly complicated. It boiled down to the interpretation of a few terms in the contract.
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There's more to that fee that the firms fee's. The Silk + Junior between them would charge $20-30k in fees at a minimum per day. They had a couple of days of hearing, they would have had days to be briefed, days prior to the arbitration for negotiations, days to settle correspondence to the Force and co.

That $2.8m would also cover advice the ARU needed for their renaming, reviewing of the new Super Rugby competition terms, print bundles for the Barristers, document hosting fees etc

Not to mention, any mediator or arbitrator needs to be paid and who do you think pays them? Those who are 'fortunate' enough to land those gigs are generally ex-high court justices and don't come cheap.

The public under-estimates how much going to court (which includes arbitration) costs. The ARU would have known this prior to cutting the Force.
 
Derpus

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Ignoto said:
There's more to that fee that the firms fee's. The Silk + Junior between them would charge $20-30k in fees at a minimum per day. They had a couple of days of hearing, they would have had days to be briefed, days prior to the arbitration for negotiations, days to settle correspondence to the Force and co.

That $2.8m would also cover advice the ARU needed for their renaming, reviewing of the new Super Rugby competition terms, print bundles for the Barristers, document hosting fees etc

Not to mention, any mediator or arbitrator needs to be paid and who do you think pays them? Those who are 'fortunate' enough to land those gigs are generally ex-high court justices and don't come cheap.

The public under-estimates how much going to court (which includes arbitration) costs. The ARU would have known this prior to cutting the Force.
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I is a lawyer, not some ignorant plebian (who doesn't do much fucking work eh, if you hadn't noticed). Also lol at the bold bit. S'like $500 tops. I had already factored in cost of silks etc. The Courts fees are covered by the filing fee (or should be).

I am just going off what i have been told here because i have zero interest in actually looking into this shit in depth, but i was lead to believe the 2.8m related purely to the Force shenanigans.

Plus, what the fuck is the point in a silk having a junior and an instructing solicitor for a one day matter? What the fuck are you paying for.
 
charlesalan

charlesalan

Sydney Middleton (9)
Does anyone have the spreadsheet that was used to determine the Executive Directors incentive payment of $500,000?
So far I've got:
1. Matchday Revenues down $4.8m from previous year
2. Super Rugby Teams costs & funds & Player payments & RUPA costs & High performance and National Teams up $7.1 m
3. Corporate costs up $2.5 m
4. Axe one fifth of the professional team base
5. Women's rugby showed club XVs participation jumping 53 per cent and club sevens participation growing 47 per cent
6. Wallabies lost the Bledisloe Cup series for a 15th straight year
7. Wallabies success not achieved p 26 annual report
8. Sevens success not achieved p 28 annual report
9. Wallaroos success not achieved p 30 annual report
10. $2.8 m legal fees
11. $10,200,000 paid to Melbourne Rebels which includes special funding being a legacy of the sale to Imperium - which occurred in 2015 and somehow meant that RA is still paying
Have I missed anything here?
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
If the $500k payment did take place I would bet it formed part of Pulver's contract and crystallised if he completed the full five years of his contract.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
charlesalan said:
wow, so not even performance based?
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I would guess not. Effectively, his contract value would be $100k higher than what he was paid each year but he only gets it if he's there for the full term of the contract.

I am speculating though.

Performance based remuneration in not for profits is pretty uncommon and I certainly don't think would be good practice.
 
Killer

Killer

Cyril Towers (30)
Braveheart81 said:
If the $500k payment did take place I would bet it formed part of Pulver's contract and crystallised if he completed the full five years of his contract.
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imo, I'm not convinced Pulver was completely in clone and clarke's court. In my conspiracy it was his payment for holding the company line, especially at the senate enquiry with regards to what and when they knew, and letting clone call all the shots with the outcome being on Pulvers shoulders as he resigned.
 
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