Ewen McKenzie Resignation

[Quick Hands]

The only change we will get by solely appointing Cheika for example, is to ruin his coaching reputation also.

Which is but one of the reasons that I don't want him to get the job at the moment.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Yes the circumstances are different.
Jake white left with the Brumbies in a good place. A clear plan for the future and coaches to take his place.
McKenzie left with the Wallabies in a panic.

McKenzie is in the highest level of coaching but quit when it got too tough.
Jake wasn't coaching a national team, he left a super rugby team with the desire to coach a higher level.

I'm sorry to disagree with you mate, but walking out on your national team does not compare to walking out on a super rugby team - at the end of the season (not half way through like McKenzie).

And disagreeing with what Link has done, does not make what White did acceptable - or, does it suggest he is the right choice for National Coach...

Linking the two does nothing to further the discussion.

 

[Bullrush]

Agree 100% with your comments about what he should have done. Whether there's another story about whether he could have done it, given the poisonous state vs state vs ARU mess the game overall is in, would be interesting to know.

The rest, not so much. The Brumbies were sailing along smoothly before White decided to have a dummy spit and bail out - he wasn't subject to the same crap which McKenzie is going through.

Fair enough. But not having to deal with the same crap doesn't necessarily mean you are anymore happy about your job or it's future career prospects. IIRC, White was missing a lot of family time, which he was prepared to do when he thought he had a shot at the Wallaby job. When he didn't have that chance anymore, the reasons for him staying were considerably less compelling. Given that he felt he was leaving the Brumbies in a far better shape than when he arrived, the desire to stay wasn't there anymore.

White didn't like the look of his future so he left - not really any different from McKenzie. Apart from the fact that McKenzie actually had - to the best of my knowledge anyway - to change that future as per my previous post....drop all the players who weren't on-board. White really had no way of changing the fact that he'd missed out on the Wallaby gig.

 

[louie]

Ah, because it's the Australian national team.

so?
if Sir Graham Henry came over here to do what he did with the All Black i'd chip in to pay his rent. and i have fuck all money.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

OK..Link knew exactly what job he was getting when he applied for the Wallabies role right?!?

Yes, of course he did. But in all of RD's time, or any coach I can remember, there has never been such a poisonous campaign of personal vilification run against a Wallaby coach.

You think there might have been a paragraph in the job description which mentioned it?

 

[Paradox]

When was the last time a coach was attacked not on game performance but on the basis on an alleged affair he was having with a staff member? A married man with a family? A completely personal smear campaign. It's outrageous and those who claim he wasn't loyal etc need to really think about this.

 

[Bullrush]

Agree 100% with your comments about what he should have done. Whether there's another story about whether he could have done it, given the poisonous state vs state vs ARU mess the game overall is in, would be interesting to know.

Oh and yes....agree with this. But if you try to do it and they fire you, at least you have a clear reason for why you don't coach the Wallabies anymore.

I'd have made them fire me - mite as well go down actually trying to do something than resigning and giving those shitty, disloyal, over-rated, never-worked-a-real-job-in-thier-life players the satisfaction of thinking that I quit cos they were too much for me.

I'd go down like this....LOL

 

[Viking]

And disagreeing with what Link has done, does not make what White did acceptable - or, does it suggest he is the right choice for National Coach.

Linking the two does nothing to further the discussion.

White's loyalty is being questioned. I'm defending this by saying you should not expect him to walk out on a national coaching position, since the reason he left a super rugby team was because he wanted to coach at the national level.

He didn't walk out on them at all. He left them early because he achieved everything he needed to. What would staying longer have achieved? I don't think they would have had better results or played any differently.

So i disagree. I think White leaving was acceptable.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

Why the fuss over Jake White's loyalty? We've had Aussie players choose to play overseas rather than stay here for a Wallaby jersey (hardship reasons I can sympathise with). We've also had players go through their managers to put the pressure on in negotiations "oh he'd like to stay but we are looking at other options (*enter option here*, loig, french rugby, japanese rugby, NFL, ultimate frisbee). Jake White though was coming over with the plan to involve himself with Australian Rugby. A lot of our own players loyalty is flakey so why target White?

BTW not a fan of Jake Ball style but still, his temperament is right & I don't see the loyalty issues.

 

[Gnostic]

With regard to the White saga and the alleged "driven good people" always looking to move onto bigger and better things in their career.
I spent the better part of 15 years working with ladder climbers like that. They'd get a job and take the big dollars and stay for a year at most. They made some system changes and got immediate improvements in high percentage areas. They then had to bail as they would be found out after the easy macro gains were made. When they finally made it to the top they again made some immediate gains but soon things start to turn to shit as the easy productivity gains dry up and the mundane grind takes over.

Apart from that an appointment of White will result in a percentage driven game to minimise the risk of losing. It may well eke out more wins, but as I have always said winning is not as important as how the game is played. Winning with a shit awful style will be just as bad as dire losses.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Yes the circumstances are different.
Jake white left with the Brumbies in a good place. A clear plan for the future and coaches to take his place.
McKenzie left with the Wallabies in a panic.

McKenzie is in the highest level of coaching but quit when it got too tough.
Jake wasn't coaching a national team, he left a super rugby team with the desire to coach a higher level.

I'm sorry to disagree with you mate, but walking out on your national team does not compare to walking out on a super rugby team - at the end of the season (not half way through like McKenzie).

Paradox has already said what I would say.

When was the last time a coach was attacked not on game performance but on the basis on an alleged affair he was having with a staff member? A married man with a family? A completely personal smear campaign. It's outrageous and those who claim he wasn't loyal etc need to really think about this.

 

[RoffsChoice]

2. The squad is such a pack of spoilt fluffybunnys he has given up any hope of being able to turn it around.

3. The media pressure really did get to him. I thought he was tougher than that but seemingly more likely by the minute.

I'm thinking it was these two combined. Back with the Reds, Link had all the support he could ever want from the players, the staff and the fans. Hell, he robbed me of a 2012 finals spot and I still respect the hell out of him. But things start going a little wrong for the Wallabies and you have Georgina Robinson talking about "supposed texts" from Beale and how Link's got one of the lowest win rates of any coach, fans are talking about how much better Cheika would be and where is Hooper in all of this? Talking to the press? Well, actually, he is, but it's to support Beale, not Patston or McKenzie. As much as I didn't like Horwill as captain, at least whenever Deans or McKenzie were under fire he stood out there for them.

He went from the most supported coach on the planet to one being torn down from one side, doubted on another and with no support at all on the third. That's not an environment he could ever succeed in.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

White's loyalty is being questioned. I'm defending this by saying you should not expect him to walk out on a national coaching position, since the reason he left a super rugby team was because he wanted to coach at the national level.

He didn't walk out on them at all. He left them early because he achieved everything he needed to. What would staying longer have achieved? I don't think they would have had better results or played any differently.

So i disagree. I think White leaving was acceptable.

Why the fuss over Jake White's loyalty? We've had Aussie players choose to play overseas rather than stay here for a Wallaby jersey (hardship reasons I can sympathise with). We've also had players go through their managers to put the pressure on in negotiations "oh he'd like to stay but we are looking at other options (*enter option here*, loig, french rugby, japanese rugby, NFL, ultimate frisbee). Jake White though was coming over with the plan to involve himself with Australian Rugby.

BTW not a fan of Jake Ball style but still, his temperament is right & I don't see the loyalty issues.

Why the fuss? - because i think appointing white as coach is akin to saying to all the players "OK - WE ARE ONLY HERE FOR THE MONEY, AND WHEN THINGS DON'T SUIT US, FECK THE CONTRACT OFF WE GO - and its ok too, cos that is what the coach does". Yes, that is exacly what we need in a Wallaby Coach, right now.

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Oh and yes..agree with this. But if you try to do it and they fire you, at least you have a clear reason for why you don't coach the Wallabies anymore.

I'd have made them fire me - mite as well go down actually trying to do something than resigning and giving those shitty, disloyal, over-rated, never-worked-a-real-job-in-thier-life players the satisfaction of thinking that I quit cos they were too much for me.

A like wasn't enough for this statement! It would give a new meaning to going out in a blaze of glory!

 

[Kenny Powers]

As I see it, the next Wallaby coach should:

- be Australian
- not have any current involvement in Super Rugby
- have the relevent experience
- be able to get the immediate respect (not approval but respect) of the players
- be able to deal with the incompetent admistration of the ARU

Brian Smith, currently of London Irish is the only one that comes to mind, outside of recycling a prior Wallabies coach.

 

[Biffo]

Anyone willing to stand up and take control in the circumstance - so I guess based in last night and the last two weeks - no-one qualifies!

Seriously though Link was relying on the likes of Horwill, Hooper, Alexander, Robison etc to act as leaders and make critical decisions to finish off games. We haven't been getting that.

Not blaming white at all but have to wonder if there would have been a different result if we had the likes of a Genia come on to take control. We just don't seem to be getting much from some of the other experienced players.

thanks.
i think mine is a serious point and you seem to agree.
watching, i got the impression at 22-12 that there was no attempt at control - in either limiting/shutting down the AIGs' options or piling on the pressure by upping the tempo of the game plan that had been working OK.
i thought also (must watch it again) that the drift lost shape and urgency and gave the AIGs too many openings - and don't forget, they need only two.

all of that suggested to me that there was a leadership gap -- but don't, for a second, think i am blaming Hooper alone.
i am not.
yes, Genia, for all his faults, would probably have been better than White in "closing out", although his propensity to hoist a kick from every ruck (let's not call them "box kicks" for very few are that) is world class.
two mates and i were screaming for Horne for Tomane from 60 minutes in, to stiffen the defence - although he may not have made that excellent catch from the AIGs penalty that won the ball back.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Perhaps Link can handle the smear campaign. Maybe it's his family, his friend Patson and her family that can't handle it?

 

[Viking]

Why the fuss? - because i think appointing white as coach is akin to saying to all the players "OK - WE ARE ONLY HERE FOR THE MONEY, AND WHEN THINGS DON'T SUIT US, FECK THE CONTRACT OFF WE GO - and its ok too, cos that is what the coach does". Yes, that is exacly what we need in a Wallaby Coach, right now.

Money? I think your really off the mark if you think Money was the driver in White leaving.

 

[Ulrich]

Make of Jake what you will. I have made it clear that I've lost some respect for him, however:

He is the one guy who can take Australia further on short notice. If with his help the Wallabies end second rather than first in their group RWC time he's the last coach I'd want to have in charge against the Springboks in the QFs.

 

[Lorenzo]

White isn't walking out on the Wallabies if he gets the gig for a year. It's really undeveloped thinking to even contemplate that he might. He wants to coach at the highest level. He left the brumbies because he thought Mckenzie would have the wallabies job sewn up for at least 3 years.

If he'd seen this coming, he'd still be with the brumbies. It's a near certainty.