France v Australia, Saturday 19 November

[A mutterer]

This is the game to pick Koroibete and give him some minutes. Then come the hardest games of the Tour: Ireland & England.

You have to secure Koroibete because Gus Pichot (World Rugby vice-president) wants to extend the time for foreing players to become elegible for their new countries

do you mean naivalu (sp?)?

korobeite is more likely for the baabaas game

 

[Twoilms]

Personally I think that's a good thing.

I also am of the belief that a player must be a citizen of a country in order to play for the national side.

I find it bizarre and difficult to reconcile that Quade, who has played 60+ times for Australia travels on a Kiwi passport wheras Samu Kerevi has become a naturalised citizen of Australia. Great stuff Samu. Talk about taking ownership.

Nationalism is an outdated and damaging concept in a modern globalised world. If a professional wants to live and work in Australia, then he should be allowed to ply his trade for us when eligible. Screw forcing them to be nationals. Worlds a fluid place these days.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Still very difficult for kiwis to get the permanent visa required to gain Australian citizenship as far as I'm aware.

There's been some changes recently but they don't take effect until mid-2017

We might be cutting off a fair old supply of our talent there Scrubber!

First sentence response: Good
Second sentence response:Shame it's so soon, 2075 sounds better
Third sentence response: Probably true, but some Australian talent would fill the breech (hopefully)

 

[Scrubber2050]

Nationalism is an outdated and damaging concept in a modern globalised world. If a professional wants to live and work in Australia, then he should be allowed to ply his trade for us when eligible. Screw forcing them to be nationals. Worlds a fluid place these days.

Trade and representing a national national team are 2 totally different things..

The world is not a fluid place at all. That might be your dream but it ain't mine.

Happy to trade with anybody, but only on terms that serve our national interests.

I do like seeing Australians representing Australia, Kiwis representing New Zealand etc etc

 

[Twoilms]

Trade and representing a national national team are 2 totally different things..

The world is not a fluid place at all. That might be your dream but it ain't mine.

Happy to trade with anybody, but only on terms that serve our national interests.

I do like seeing Australians representing Australia, Kiwis representing New Zealand etc etc

righto..

Edit: actually, i'll bite. The national team is meant to be representative of the country from which they come. 27.7% of the people who currently live in Australia wern't born here. Lots of Islanders live here. Seems pretty representative to me.

Also, if the world wasn't a fluid place, why does over a quarter of our population not immediately originate from Australia?

Hate this stupid nationalistic stick people use to beat teams with. Who gives a fuck what sort of heritage Billy Vunipola or WP Nel have. They want to live and play where they want and good for them.

 

[Scrubber2050]

righto..

Edit: actually, i'll bite. The national team is meant to be representative of the country from which they come. 27.7% of the people who currently live in Australia wern't born here. Lots of Islanders live here. Seems pretty representative to me.

Presumably the percentage of Islanders is only a couple of per cent (after allowing for migration from all countries of the world (195 in 2016), so would only be a small percentage of your quoted 27.7% total. We currently have 8 or 9 players of PI 'ish heritage

Therefore are you advocating a representation of players in the Wallabies and other national teams based on race. On my calculation out of a matchday group of 23 then a half player (of PI ) would make the team, say sit on the bench. The other 22.5 players come from all other "nationalities", obviously and predominantly, white.

That is fucking ridiculous as well as dare I say it, racist.

I don't give a shit where someone comes from and whether he's black, white, brown, brindle or purple.

The simple fact that he is an Australian (by birth, heritage or naturalisation) supersedes all else.

End of rant

 

[Twoilms]

Right so nothing matters but a little sheet of paper saying he's lived here for 8 years? The difference between that and eligibility under the ARU's laws is a quantitative difference not a qualitative one.

Are you trying to argue that we should just make players wait longer before they can play for us then?

I'm impressed that you managed to fling the racist card at my enthusiasm for migration.

 

[dru]

@2 Let me get this right, you are outraged by nationalism for a national sporting team?

You must see the disconnect, surely.

 

[Twoilms]

@2 Let me get this right, you are outraged by nationalism for a national sporting team?

You must see the disconnect, surely.

I wouldn't say outraged, and thats an oversimplification.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Right so nothing matters but a little sheet of paper saying he's lived here for 8 years? The difference between that and eligibility under the ARU's laws is a quantitative difference not a qualitative one.

Are you trying to argue that we should just make players wait longer before they can play for us then?

All i'm saying is that IMO a player should be an Australian citizen to play for Australia.

If it takes 1 year or 10, so be it.

PS I'm waiting for repose on representative selection - suppose it a bit like the policy in Saffaland but reverse

 

[Scrubber2050]

I wouldn't say outraged, and thats an oversimplification.

It's simply simple

 

[Twoilms]

All i'm saying is that IMO a player should be an Australian citizen to play for Australia.

If it takes 1 year or 10, so be it.

PS I'm waiting for repose on representative selection - suppose it a bit like the policy in Saffaland but reverse

Sigh, this is getting out of hand.

I wasn't proposing an exact racial representation of country by team. I was merely using the statistic to illustrate the point that we are a nation of migrants and using a migrant in our team shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Sigh, this is getting out of hand.

I wasn't proposing an exact racial representation of country by team. I was merely using the statistic to illustrate the point that we are a nation of migrants and using a migrant in our team shouldn't be a problem.

Mate My forbears were from England, Scotland, Ireland and China as well.

I'm happy to take a million migrants a year but it comes down to taking ownership by becoming citizens.

 

[Twoilms]

Mate My forbears were from England, Scotland, Ireland and China as well.

I'm happy to take a million migrants a year but it comes down to taking ownership by becoming citizens.

Last point i'll make. I think, by making himself ineligible for another country and waiting the requisite time to become eligible, he's taken ownership of his decision.

 

[Brumby Runner]

In reality Cheika will have his 23 picked for the Irish game and be working back from there.

For the baa baas no one in the Ireland game.

Now for the french game.

There is one issue here, France had been thought of as an easy game, but wallabies lost to them last time in 214 under Cheika. Also lost to them in 2012 in france. France just thrashed Samoa.

It is not going to be an easy game where the best players can be rested.

Cheika has also stated he wants to win every game.

Obviously on players who are close in ability / talent and have had not much time like QC (Quade Cooper) and Foley could be swapped.

But props Sio and Kepu are well ahead of the bench props and France are very good scrummagers.

Latu is better in the scrum than Moore so he could get a start.

Lock is weak with Coleman out. Arnold has not played that much nor has Simmons so they should start. Douglas on bench.

Pocock has not played that much due to injuries time to play him at 7. Hooper for impact off the bench. Fardy at 6. Timani at 8.
I think he well play Pocock at 6 and Hooper at 7 again though.
Mumm will also be selected ahead of Fardy.

Phipps should play 9 both in form and not played that much.

Rest of backs there is not much choice since replacements are not good enough. Morohan may be but has not been in the wallaby squad not enough time to get up to speed.
Speight may be replaced.
Hodge at 12, TK at 13, DHP at 14 and Folau at 15 , Cheika will stick to this IMO.

PK, I agree almost entirely with your comments except the highlit piece.

After the 23 for Ireland are selected and quarantined, Cheika has about 17 or 18 players left - not enough to fill the roster of 23 players for the French Baa Baas. It would be funny if it wasn't serious. Can you see any other avenue for filling the Baa baas' side while taking 23 players to Dublin early?

 

[Scrubber2050]

PK, I agree almost entirely with your comments except the highlit piece.

After the 23 for Ireland are selected and quarantined, Cheika has about 17 or 18 players left - not enough to fill the roster of 23 players for the French Baa Baas. It would be funny if it wasn't serious. Can you see any other avenue for filling the Baa baas' side while taking 23 players to Dublin early?

Maybe we can borrow a few Frenchies to wear their jerseys inside out to play for us to help us out ,like the Under 7's

 

[Brumby Runner]

Maybe we can borrow a few Frenchies to wear their jerseys inside out to play for us to help us out ,like the Under 7's

Not if they haven't taken out Australian citizenship Scrubber.

 

[KOB1987]

PK, I agree almost entirely with your comments except the highlit piece.

After the 23 for Ireland are selected and quarantined, Cheika has about 17 or 18 players left - not enough to fill the roster of 23 players for the French Baa Baas. It would be funny if it wasn't serious. Can you see any other avenue for filling the Baa baas' side while taking 23 players to Dublin early?

You are correct but I think the objective will be for the said 17 or 18 players to go out there and have a bit of fun and play most of the minutes and the remaining 5 or 6 players on the bench who will need to back up will only go on if necessary. I'd say they will be benchies for both games.

Is it really necessary to be in Dublin before Friday? There's no significant difference climatically and the time difference is 1 hour.

EDIT: they may even negotiate an interchange rule.

 

[Marcelo]

do you mean naivalu (sp?)?

korobeite is more likely for the baabaas game

Naivalu has already played. The French BaaBaas game is not a test so it doesn't count for the caps

 

[Brumby Runner]

You are correct but I think the objective will be for the said 17 or 18 players to go out there and have a bit of fun and play most of the minutes and the remaining 5 or 6 players on the bench who will need to back up will only go on if necessary. I'd say they will be benchies for both games.

Is it really necessary to be in Dublin before Friday? There's no significant difference climatically and the time difference is 1 hour.

EDIT: they may even negotiate an interchange rule.

Bench players or not, I for one think they all should be in Dublin as soon as possible and be together training for the Irish test. And isn't it a bit presumptuous to think that Cheika will have settled his starters and bench jockeys by the day after the French test when the team (and coaches) otherwise will have left for Dublin?