Ireland v Wallabies, Saturday 15/11 (Sunday morning Aus time)

[stillmissit]

I don't really understand what you want them to do differently?

as others have said we have had plenty of club plays in Super Rugby lineups over the years, with almost no success.

Doing something different for the Tahs would be to not play any more club props

You missed my statement about stepping up from club to Super Rugby, it is a different level of fitness etc. Same thing happens when we take guys from Super Rugby into the Wallabies, it's a big step up in terms of speed of the game and skillset, it is expected that they can build their way in via the squad. The Rebels and Tahs were desperate and grabbed guys out of club and played them with almost zero exposure to the squad. That is no universal way to measure talent or lack of it. I'd bet several of those guys with desire, fitness, diet and all the trappings of pro rugby, would look a lot better than guys like Robertson.
Many of our Wallabies are average Super Rugby players and that is our pathway stuffed.
Phitzy is right about fixing the bottom, but that ain't gonna do anything for us in less than 5+ years. We need to find a way to make the most of what we have, and spark a desire and cohesion to make a team of the Wallabies, at the moment they are playing like a bunch of individuals.

 

[stillmissit]

I'm not sure you can draw a straight line between us losing a test to the Lions in '89, us winning a little bit in the early then late 90's and there being a surplus of hidden gems uncontracted in club rugby.

There is no comparison to be made, it was that a coach took a different approach to handling pressure, and rather than buckle under it, they stood up.

 

[Braveheart81]

I find it strange you keep referencing Tom Robertson when you can just look at other Australian Super Rugby props and see that he is clearly better than a lot of them.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I find it strange you keep referencing Tom Robertson when you can just look at other Australian Super Rugby props and see that he is clearly better than a lot of them.

Just the 38 Wallaby caps and 110 Super Rugby games

 

[stillmissit]

I find it strange you keep referencing Tom Robertson when you can just look at other Australian Super Rugby props and see that he is clearly better than a lot of them.

In your opinion who is he better than? Not a smart arse question but just inquisitive as I haven't seen many props in Super Rugby less competent than him.

 

[stillmissit]

Just the 38 Wallaby caps and 110 Super Rugby games

Baxter was the same and about the same level of competence.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Baxter was the same and about the same level of competence.

They don't need to be good to get this number of caps. They just need to be clearly better than any of the alternatives in the eyes of multiple pro coaches at Super Rugby and national level

 

[stillmissit]

Then we are lucky to get a prop (Ross) who has played for one of the best Super Rugby teams last year, and presumably still fit enough and doesn't get picked. I struggle to understand some of Schmidt selections.

 

[stillmissit]

They don't need to be good to get this number of caps. They just need to be clearly better than any of the alternatives in the eyes of multiple pro coaches at Super Rugby and national level

OK, but crap is still crap, and he ain't no Slipper!

 

[Strewthcobber]

When trying to understand coaches decisions, I reckon people focus way too much on things like scrums for props, or LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)'s runs, and way to little attention for what they are doing 90% of the time.

The answer is probably defence discipline, and correctly playing their roles in the attacking structure (ie clean outs)

 

[stillmissit]

The answer is probably defence discipline, and correctly playing their roles in the attacking structure (ie clean outs)

I think you and I can wrap up our discussion on players, as what you have written is exactly my concerns about the current team's efforts.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I watch Gordon, Randwick and occasionally Easts. If your main argument is that pulling guys out of club rugby and sticking them in Super Rugby and watching them fail, then you are talking out of your arse. If you step up, you need a lot more training and understanding of the coaches plans. If you don't appreciate that, then there is little reason to discuss this with you.

How much senior rugby have you played? Your kind of talk of "we can't fix this" gives me the shits....

Not a pissing contest mate. It’s a forum, where all ‘never beens' but I’ve played plenty and I have a feeling in an era you may not get.

Of the Club environment you probably have 10% of them capable of going to the next level. It’s not even about training, S&C and comprehension a lot of time. If exposed they could catch up with that. It’s the ability to execute the same skills at a higher speed.

Just because I disagree with one statement doesn’t mean I’m against everything. Seems like it’s fine for you to disagree though.

I’ve written on plenty of threads in regards to pathways at all levels. I’m very interested in the future of Rugby and want it to succeed.

 

[griffins]

Not a pissing contest mate. It’s a forum, where all ‘never beens' but I’ve played plenty and I have a feeling in an era you may not get.

Of the Club environment you probably have 10% of them capable of going to the next level. It’s not even about training, S&C and comprehension a lot of time. If exposed they could catch up with that. It’s the ability to execute the same skills at a higher speed.

Just because I disagree with one statement doesn’t mean I’m against everything. Seems like it’s fine for you to disagree though.

I’ve written on plenty of threads in regards to pathways at all levels. I’m very interested in the future of Rugby and want it to succeed.

Don't question the ultimate arbiter of rugby...

 

[Major Tom]

When trying to understand coaches decisions, I reckon people focus way too much on things like scrums for props, or LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)'s runs, and way to little attention for what they are doing 90% of the time.

The answer is probably defence discipline, and correctly playing their roles in the attacking structure (ie clean outs)

Gotta nail your core role first and foremost. Robertson is a survival scrummaging prop imo. I can see the argument of what he does around the park but I’m not even sure he does that aspect well. It’s the same reason why Marely Pearce isn’t in the conversation for the next level because he goes as well around the park as any other prop in Aus but can’t scrummage well enough (yet) to make it at the next level. Kailea in the same boat. For me the sooner we can confidently go past Robertson (who has peaked) with other options like Ross, Lington, Kailea, Schoupp and Pearce the better.

 

[Tomthumb]

When trying to understand coaches decisions, I reckon people focus way too much on things like scrums for props, or LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)'s runs, and way to little attention for what they are doing 90% of the time.

The answer is probably defence discipline, and correctly playing their roles in the attacking structure (ie clean outs)

Core roles are called that for a reason. Scrums aren’t important until they are and they cost you a game.

And our defensive discipline is shite and the attacking structure if baffling so if they are picking on that no wonder we stuck

 

[rugbyAU]

Do we reckon the players are really exhausted

 

[wamberal99]

Do we reckon the players are really exhausted

How would we know? We have never had to go through what they do (most of us, anyway).

 

[Pfitzy]

Core roles are called that for a reason. Scrums aren’t important until they are and they cost you a game.

AAA subbed off when we had a scrum in our half down 22-14. Ireland get penalty, extend lead past 10.

Critical moments.

 

[Major Tom]

Fluffed lineout after JOCs very good touch finder. That was the critical moment.