IS OUR GAME GROWING?

[Inside Shoulder]

The 34% statistic isn't even correct, as that includes two clubs who went from Parramatta to Penrith.

I think the way that figure is expressed it suggests that if you include the 2 clubs who left there is still a 34% decline.
Why do you have to call someone's opinion "nonsense"? With every post you breach the rules you purport to uphold.
My negativity is caused by people from the heartland (of whom i am one) who think that the "heartland" is the key to a successful rugby culture in this country.

Wests (+4%), Parramatta (-36% **), Southern District (-35%), Eastwood (-17%)
Gordon (+20%), Warringah (+4%), Manly (+20%), Norths (+20%)

Look at Parramatta, Southern Districts and Eastwood - whats behind that?
It will be a lot less time before the next junior from any of those districts plays for the Wallabies than one from WA or Victoria.I would be careful about reading too much into the Norths + 20% because of Hunter Hill moving under their umbrella.

I have medium term faith in WA and Vic but they are not the engine room of australian rugby.

barbarian: judging by some other posts of yours you are still playing rugby. I suspect that means that you dont have kids looking for a reasonable game of footy on a reliable basis. I can afford to pay the $300 per kid to play the game - many cant and other codes dont ask so much.
Clearly we have no outside backs lurking worthy of a s15 contract with the Tahs or the wobblies - why is that?
If we dont want the game to be played by everyone that's fine. The consequence of that decision, however, will be a lack of long terms competitiveness.

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

I think the way that figure is expressed it suggests that if you include the 2 clubs who left there is still a 34% decline.
Why do you have to call someone's opinion "nonsense"? With every post you breach the rules you purport to uphold.
My negativity is caused by people from the heartland (of whom i am one) who think that the "heartland" is the key to a successful rugby culture in this country.



Look at Parramatta, Southern Districts and Eastwood - whats behind that?
It will be a lot less time before the next junior from any of those districts plays for the Wallabies than one from WA or Victoria.I would be careful about reading too much into the Norths + 20% because of Hunter Hill moving under their umbrella.

I have medium term faith in WA and Vic but they are not the engine room of australian rugby.

barbarian: judging by some other posts of yours you are still playing rugby. I suspect that means that you dont have kids looking for a reasonable game of footy on a reliable basis. I can afford to pay the $300 per kid to play the game - many cant and other codes dont ask so much.
Clearly we have no outside backs lurking worthy of a s15 contract with the Tahs or the wobblies - why is that?
If we dont want the game to be played by everyone that's fine. The consequence of that decision, however, will be a lack of long terms competitiveness.

My mandate is Parramatta. So the 34% drop in rego numbers in Parra is just that. 34% fewer kids were registered with our clubs in 2012 than they were in 2011. I do not have the Penrith numbers, but seeing they went from 1 club to 3, it's fair to say their numbers will be up. Roughly about 28% of this figure is made up of the two clubs having a brain explosion. Would be interesting to find out what the numbers in those clubs were with the change of Districts.

Barbarian, I love how you completely discount anyone else's comments as anecdotal just because you have a difference of opinion. You are correct, the 'heartland' of the game in Sydney is the lower north shore, however, if any region, not just Parramatta or western sydney struggles, surely the cause of that should be examined and attempts made to rectify the slide.

A little known fact is that every year, 4000 registered juniors leave the game in Sydney after one year of playing. And every year they get about 4500 new ones. What the hell is so wrong with their experience that they lose 40% every year? Imagine, just imagine if they kept them...............................

 

[Inside Shoulder]

BellyTwoBlues "they" (ARU/NSWRU) need to follow up the 4000 who leave and find out why and where they go for winter sport and, equally, follow up the 500 who stay and find out why.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

There is no Schools rugby database that I am aware of.

I can only assume that the Junior Jarses playing School footy get counted by the School submitting a census number of the number of kids in the footy programme (by age group) and that is it. When the Jnr Jarses have played for SJRU, a full ARU database form is submitted and their name goes down in the ARU database to be counted.

It only takes a lazy or imprecise club administrator to bugger up a rego form data entry and you have duplications. From various courses I have done, and various positions held in rugbydom, as either parent, coach, match official, committee member, my own name appears in the ARU data base several times. It is too hard trying to argue with the database wallahs to get them to change the details and delete one or more of the duplicate entries.

It is great to see that there is good growth in player numbers and participants in the likes of WA and Vic. This is evidenced in the performance of their age group teams in the various championships that are held. One day soon the Burghers of Sydney will be in for a rude shock when the Mexicans or Sand groupers beat them.

My gripe is admittedly Sydney centric and I just feel that not everything in Sydney Rugby is perhaps as rosy as those putting forward the numbers for Federal Sports grants are suggesting.

How many new Schools have joined AAGPS, CAS, or ISA competitions?

How is the CCC Schools competition looking?

How many State High Schools have active rugby programmes?

Have we created an Arms race in the AAGPS competition which is drawing kids from the non GPS schools and in turn making some marginal rugby schools give up the game as any kid who is any good is heading to the GPS/CAS competition?


How are numbers of Colts looking? There are several clubs that will struggle if the Gaggerland reports are to be believed.

How are the team numbers and participant numbers in the SJRU U17's and U18's looking?

What strategies are in place to convert the large numbers in Minis to keep them in the game for the U14's onwards?

The Australian JRU is still working on a strategic plan. QJRU have a discussion paper in circulation. NSW JRU are several years behind in publishing their annual reports so I am not holding my breath for an up to date Strategic Plan from them.

There is a lot of good stuff going on in Rugbydom and that is awesome. VSRU U16's are tearing it up on their NH tour. The Cold Coast Carnival is getting bigger and better. The Uni-Norths Junior 7's in Canberra is similar. Record numbers of Schools and Club teams are touring overseas, and plenty are going further afield than the traditional NZ tour; Oakhill went to Argentina last year - what a great experience for those boys and their hosts. As an aside, Rugby is the only oval ball code where such opportunities for overseas travel exists on such a wide scope.

We can not afford to rest on our laurels and think all is OK just because we have broken the 300,000 participant mark.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It is too hard trying to argue with the database wallahs to get them to change the details and delete one or more of the duplicate entries.

Pity you cant pick up a pension for each entry.
To be fair I assume the ARU is trying to streamline this process with the myrugby card - but i dont think the players have these?

 

[barbarian]

Barbarian, I love how you completely discount anyone else's comments as anecdotal just because you have a difference of opinion. You are correct, the 'heartland' of the game in Sydney is the lower north shore, however, if any region, not just Parramatta or western sydney struggles, surely the cause of that should be examined and attempts made to rectify the slide.

But Wamberal's post (which I presume is what you are referring to) was anecdotal. As was Rob's just a few posts later, which showed a different situation. Anecdotes are all well and good, but if you want to get a real picture you need to look at the overall numbers. My opinion is irrelevant.

So then we get to a discussion of statistics, and how they can be manipulated. Obviously you are right when you say kids can be counted 3,4,5 times in different capacities. But my riposte to that is simple- this has been the way for years. It's not like they have only discovered these shenanigans this season. So once you accept that this has always (practically speaking) been the way, then the year on year figures actually do have some meaning.

And it's also worth noting that every sport fiddles the stats, rugby is hardly Robinson Crusoe here.

The third aspect you raise is that of the 'heartland'. I wholly agree we should be looking into the struggles of Parra and Western Sydney generally. I agree with you totally that the ARU should be doing more, as I said in my original post. We shouldn't gloss over these issues by any means.

But my overall point was people who look at these negatives and blow them out to say that rugby across the board is dying. Yes rugby in the West of Sydney is struggling. Yes we should be doing something about it. But arguments about the broader health of the game shouldn't lose sight of the bigger picture, and the recent numbers show things are doing pretty well.
.

 

[p.Tah]

Perhaps we could head over to the Grassroots thread and discuss ways that we can grow the game in the areas that aren't doing as well as other regions.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Statistics..Love them. You all know they can be manipulated to suit whatever outcome you want to highlight.

The truth is, yes 300,000 people took part in some sort of rugby match for the first time. What that's not telling you though is that the participants are counted sometimes up to 5 or 6 times.

Example being..11 year old little Johnny shows up at a Try Rugby Event and Mum puts him name down as having attended. Little Johnny then turns up and plays a game for his local village club. Let's say Lindfield. That then counts. Then little Johnny happens to enjoy the experience and plays for his local school, let's say Lindfield Public School. Johnny then plays a great game as is picked to participate in the PSSA tournament for his region, let's say it's North Shore. He then gets picked for the NSW PSSA side. He will be counted 5 times. So whilst only 1 kid has actually played the game, 5 different associaations have counted him and the ARU count all 5. This happens all the way to colts and grade level for seniors though obviously it's not as much.

And also, through the ARU registration system a club can mispell a players name (deliberately or otherwise) to create a new registration for the same person. Case in point, I know of a club (not ours) who instead of renewing the registration each year for their players with the click of a button, they create a new registration entirely. And it might be because his address has changed or mobile number changed. Their admin guy, despite numerous occasions where he has been instructed, simply thinks it's easier to create a new one. If he's one bloke doing that, how many others are out there?

Belly, I can go only on the info I have. Given that you are tied up with Parra, you might have better stats available to your good self. If what I read in The West is to be believed then the game is growing in Australia and especially here in WA. Certainly all the buzz over here would suggest that.

 

[Aussie D]

Its not good that terrigal (home of the Terrigal Trojans - "a trojan for me, a trojan for me) cant jag the PI Wamberal is talking about.

The youngest age group for rugby on the Central Coast is U7 so maybe his Aussie Mum may have had a say in this decision. Looking forward to my son playing rugby next year on the Coast (hopefully with the Rams) to 'swell' the numbers. Also a Pacific Islander not wanting their kid associated with Terrigal is not strange considering some incidences that have occurred with that club in the past.

 

[latrell247]

There is no Schools rugby database that I am aware of.

I can only assume that the Junior Jarses playing School footy get counted by the School submitting a census number of the number of kids in the footy programme (by age group) and that is it. When the Jnr Jarses have played for SJRU, a full ARU database form is submitted and their name goes down in the ARU database to be counted.

It only takes a lazy or imprecise club administrator to bugger up a rego form data entry and you have duplications. From various courses I have done, and various positions held in rugbydom, as either parent, coach, match official, committee member, my own name appears in the ARU data base several times. It is too hard trying to argue with the database wallahs to get them to change the details and delete one or more of the duplicate entries.

It is great to see that there is good growth in player numbers and participants in the likes of WA and Vic. This is evidenced in the performance of their age group teams in the various championships that are held. One day soon the Burghers of Sydney will be in for a rude shock when the Mexicans or Sand groupers beat them.

My gripe is admittedly Sydney centric and I just feel that not everything in Sydney Rugby is perhaps as rosy as those putting forward the numbers for Federal Sports grants are suggesting.

How many new Schools have joined AAGPS, CAS, or ISA competitions?

How is the CCC Schools competition looking?

How many State High Schools have active rugby programmes?

Have we created an Arms race in the AAGPS competition which is drawing kids from the non GPS schools and in turn making some marginal rugby schools give up the game as any kid who is any good is heading to the GPS/CAS competition?


How are numbers of Colts looking? There are several clubs that will struggle if the Gaggerland reports are to be believed.

How are the team numbers and participant numbers in the SJRU U17's and U18's looking?

What strategies are in place to convert the large numbers in Minis to keep them in the game for the U14's onwards?

The Australian JRU is still working on a strategic plan. QJRU have a discussion paper in circulation. NSW JRU are several years behind in publishing their annual reports so I am not holding my breath for an up to date Strategic Plan from them.

There is a lot of good stuff going on in Rugbydom and that is awesome. VSRU U16's are tearing it up on their NH tour. The Cold Coast Carnival is getting bigger and better. The Uni-Norths Junior 7's in Canberra is similar. Record numbers of Schools and Club teams are touring overseas, and plenty are going further afield than the traditional NZ tour; Oakhill went to Argentina last year - what a great experience for those boys and their hosts. As an aside, Rugby is the only oval ball code where such opportunities for overseas travel exists on such a wide scope.

We can not afford to rest on our laurels and think all is OK just because we have broken the 300,000 participant mark.

Public schools need a lot of work in terms of growing the game of rugby union. In NSW they have the waratah shield. Public schools are dominated by rugby league. In New Zealand, school rugby games are televised. In Australia they televise league school games. Seems as though the focus all goes to the private schools.

 

[TOCC]

In Australia the only rugby league school games they televise is on the NRL GF day and the main reason they do that is because they already have all the equipment set up there..