Italy vs Wallabies, EOYT 2010

[RedsHappy]

I am becoming convinced by some of the posters on this thread, that KB (Kurtley Beale) should be given a shot at 10. He offers what QC (Quade Cooper) does, and has suddenly learned the art of tackling. If we want a counter-attacking fullback then Hynes is now fit.

Groucho, IMO, re the Italy game, I would much rather we appoint a radical, fresh team fm the midweek squad and main XV (and perhaps with some major positional experimentation with say KB (Kurtley Beale) at 10 for one game only) with high opportunity for discovering new abilities and talents, and then we (maybe) have a loss to Italy, vs a win with the same team a la England pretty much, that reveals nothing new for 2011's challenges in terms of team deepening, and/or enhanced positional capabilities.

 

[Groucho]

Groucho, IMO, re the Italy game, I would much rather we appoint a radical, fresh team fm the midweek squad and main XV (and perhaps with some major positional experimentation with say KB (Kurtley Beale) at 10 for one game only) with high opportunity for discovering new abilities and talents, and then we (maybe) have a loss to Italy, vs a win with the same team a la England pretty much, that reveals nothing new for 2011's challenges in terms of team deepening, and/or enhanced positional capabilities.

RH I agree. Then we have both rested, and newly tested players, to choose from for the all-important France game.

The problem is that most of the dirt-trackers looked quite poor against Leicester, but hopefully that was rust and the conditions.

 

[RedsHappy]

RH I agree. Then we have both rested, and newly tested players, to choose from for the all-important France game.

The problem is that most of the dirt-trackers looked quite poor against Leicester, but hopefully that was rust and the conditions.

I actually think we may be guilty of asking too much - in a 'show me' dimension - from these midweekers. These teams are 'artificial' in a sense, a tricky combination of rust (some v deep rust through major injury), totally untrialled combinations, selectors beady-eyed over every move, unfamiliar NH conditions and opposition style, unfamiliar captain, etc. I guess what I am saying is that we should not be looking for or really expecting some kind of outstanding performance from all or most, but the smaller flashes of quality or application in play that indicate a readiness for the next level up, or a good risk-reward prospect to replace an under-performing player in the main XV.

 

[RugbyReg]

Lachie Turner is expected to be pulled out of the Wallabies' midweek side to prepare for his latest Test start, with winger James O'Connor on his way to a funeral in Australia.

Turner was named at fullback for the second string Australia side's tour match against powerhouse Irish province Munster but is now unlikely to be risked in Limerick as Australia prepare for this weekend's Test against Italy in Florence.

The NSW Waratahs star has held down one of Australia's bench spots in each of the three Tests on the spring tour after an impressive performance as Drew Mitchell's replacement in the final Tri-Nations match against the All Blacks in Sydney.

O'Connor will miss Sunday morning's (EDT) Test after flying home to attend a friend's funeral.

The 20-year-old wore a black armband in his friend's honour in the 35-18 loss to England at Twickenham last weekend and left the tour squad on Sunday.

He will return for the match against France in Paris a week later.

Another option on the Wallabies' wing is Queenslander Peter Hynes, who started regularly in coach Robbie Deans' first two seasons in charge before suffering a serious knee injury.



Hynes played well in the Wallabies' win over English club side Leicester last week and has been named on the bench for Wednesday morning's (EDT) clash with Munster.

Australia are not short on wingers on this tour with Reds speedster Rod Davies and the uncapped Pat McCabe and Luke Morahan also available.

O'Connor's compassionate leave means fullback Kurtley Beale, five-eighth Quade Cooper or former goalkicker Matt Giteau will be handed the troubled kicking responsibilities.

Beale has been considered a long-range option but, after his heroics to win an historic Test in Bloemfontein, struggled the last time he was used, in the Hong Kong win over New Zealand.

Giteau relinquished the duties two weeks ago, while Cooper continues to practice and benchman Berrick Barnes also kicks goals.

Luke Burgess could be another to see less game-time midweek with first choice halfback Will Genia being monitored with a rib injury.

Genia was replaced early in the second half at Twickenham but medical staff haven't seen the need for an X-ray, believing it is a cartilage problem or bone bruising and pain management will be the issue.

He was due for a light day on Monday, with the midweek team to train.

 

[Bowside]

Barnes has to start this game. Let him stake his claim for the starting jersey. Gits has had his turn and should play against munster to find some form.

Also I'm banking on a 5:2 split (Gits 21, hynes 22) on the bench if genia is injured.

 

[Richo]

Scotty and MrMouse --

I actually agree with you guys and have said as much many times before. I love the way Beale plays at 15 and want him to stay there. But if we're talking about one test against Italy (and a "have a good hard look at yourself" demotion for Quade) and are worried about not having an in-form "creative" player at 10 or 12 then Beale could fit the bill. Hence my "almost there" on Beale at 10 for this game.

All that said, I'd rather see him stay at 15 too.

Related to this, I don't like Barnes at 10 except in the wet. I much prefer him as a 12 outside Cooper and wish to God he would get a prolonged run there.

 

[Groucho]

Another option that hasn't had much air yet is Beale at 12. He played his best ever football for the Waratahs at 12, outside Barnes. Cooper and Beale have been playing 10/12 in various combinations in age group footy since their early teens.

 

[fatprop]

Leave Cooper there, the other options are limited and don't play the style we are all "supposed" to love, just expect him to bend his back, use his shoulders and get in there.

 

[Epi]

I love the idea of Beale at 10 but his long passing game is non-existent.

God I wish someone like Ricky Stuart would help him add this facet to his game and he would be the best 10 this country has seen - Ella included.

 

[Richo]

Another option that hasn't had much air yet is Beale at 12. He played his best ever football for the Waratahs at 12, outside Barnes. Cooper and Beale have been playing 10/12 in various combinations in age group footy since their early teens.

Until he got moved to fullback...

 

[Bullrush]

Beale at 10 could work, and probably should work, but we keep forgetting that he is now excelling in the extra space of fullback. It is his running and support game that is making him so good in that position, and both of these things will be a lot more limited if we stick him at 10.

He is moving towards the mantle of worlds best fullback, why move him?

I agree he is great for the Wallabies at fullback BUT I think he has the skill-set and more importantly, he may now have the maturity, to move towards being one of the world's best 1st-5's.

When you look at the amount of influence that each position can exert on a game, I know where I'd want my best player to be at. Cooper may have the long-pass that everyone seems to have fallen head over heels for but I think in almost every other aspect, Beale is just as good, if not better.

 

[Groucho]

Leave Cooper there, the other options are limited and don't play the style we are all "supposed" to love, just expect him to bend his back, use his shoulders and get in there.

Gilbert learned to tackle. Maybe he can teach Quade. Quade is a solid lad.

 

[Groucho]

I love the idea of Beale at 10 but his long passing game is non-existent.

God I wish someone like Ricky Stuart would help him add this facet to his game and he would be the best 10 this country has seen - Ella included.

He had a phenomenal long passing game at school.

 

[Lance Free]

Italia - nazionale, ventiquattro convocati per il test contro L'Australia

Avanti

Robert BARBIERI (Benetton Treviso, 8 caps)
Mauro BERGAMASCO (Stade Francais, 84 caps)
Martin CASTROGIOVANNI (Leicester Tigers, 69 caps)
Lorenzo CITTADINI (Benetton Treviso, 3 caps)
Carlo Antonio DEL FAVA (Aironi Rugby, 46 caps)
Santiago DELLAPE’ (Racing Metro Paris, 58 caps)
Paul DERBYSHIRE (Benetton Treviso, 6 caps)
Quintin GELDENHUYS (Aironi Rugby, 14 caps)
Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Benetton Treviso, 32 caps)
Andrea LO CICERO (Racing Metro Paris, 79 caps)
Fabio ONGARO (Aironi Rugby, 72 caps)
Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 70 caps) - capitano
Salvatore PERUGINI (Aironi Rugby, 74 caps)
Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Treviso, 45 caps)

Trequarti

Tommaso BENVENUTI (Benetton Treviso, 1 cap)
Mirco BERGAMASCO (Racing Metro Paris, 74 caps)
Riccardo BOCCHINO (Aironi Rugby, 4 caps)
Gonzalo CANALE (Clermont-Auvergne, 59 caps)
Pablo CANAVOSIO (Aironi Rugby, 31 caps)
Edoardo GORI (Benetton Treviso, esordiente)
Andrea MASI (Racing Metro Paris, 53 caps)
Luke MCLEAN (Benetton Treviso, 22 caps)
Luciano ORQUERA (Brive, 15 caps)
Alberto SGARBI (Benetton Treviso, 6 caps)

Looks like Gowie has been dropped after the loss to Argentina last weekend.

Ciao, LF

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I agree he is great for the Wallabies at fullback BUT I think he has the skill-set and more importantly, he may now have the maturity, to move towards being one of the world's best 1st-5's.

When you look at the amount of influence that each position can exert on a game, I know where I'd want my best player to be at. Cooper may have the long-pass that everyone seems to have fallen head over heels for but I think in almost every other aspect, Beale is just as good, if not better.

Kurtley has really only come good this season and not at 5/8. I agree that he's got the makings of a spectacular 10, but he's so doing the business at full back right now, I'd be loathe to move him. I know we did it with Bernie, but I suspect there was an element of desperation from MacQueen in that selection initially. Lucky for us that it worked so well. Kurtley's defence was a bit ropey for a while and now it's actually pretty damn good, so no reason why Quade couldn't do the same if he's committed enough. If he isn't then I'd be happy for him to be cast aside.

I think where I'd prefer QC (Quade Cooper) to be at 5/8, apart from the aforementioned passing which is top drawer, is the ability to take on the line and create space for the blokes outside him. Quade picks up runners beautifully and in a manner that few others are able to do. He's also got a decent boot and with enough maturity, will be able to steer the team around the paddock. This is his first full season playing at 10 for us and I'm prepared to give him more time. He needs to show more on D, though.

Just back on KB (Kurtley Beale) at fullback, I think we'd be reducing a strength to cover a perceived weakness too. Who would play fullback with nearly the same daring as KB (Kurtley Beale) does? He's our best since Latham at his peak.

 

[MrMouse]

Looks like Gowie has been dropped after the loss to Argentina last weekend.

My understanding was he was out with a bung knee but the other bloke was dropped...

 

[Ash]

Would people start Burgess if Genia was ruled fit to play?

Personally, I wouldn't. I like what Burgess brings, but I thought his cameo was a real mixed bag - too good darts (one off a missed lineout throw and another a good snipe), but his organisational play was awful - he turned over the ball several times and tried several more darts which were never on, plus he missed a bunch of tackles. I still think that Burgess looks best against a tired defence, but his pass and organisation is barely S14 standard. What Burgess brings is energy, enthusiasm and a real threat from the ruck base - all this makes up for what his pass and organisational skill lacks in the last 15 to 20 minutes for me.

Genia for me wasn't that bad - that drive that ended with Genia foolishly darting and losing the ball for the length of the field English try was all run and organised by Genia, getting his forwards actually going forward for once. Genia is not quite in the form that saw him dominate some S14 games, but I think people are rating him on what they expecting him to do, rather than what he actually is doing. The worst thing about Genia's performance vs England for me was his pass at the start of the game - was a bit wayward and un-Genia like, but improved as the game went on.

As for Quade - I'd drop him, but leave Beale at fullback. Quade needs to learn that his defence needs improvement, and the message needs to be rammed home. I still think that Quade has the best passing / organisational game in Australia, and will be there next year once his defence is improved. Beale seems better suited to the extra space he gets at fullback.

 

[El Gamba]

Some interesting comments above. In terms of backs selections, I am not sure that Beale would shore up the defence in the 10/12 channel much and believe that his strength is about injecting himself in broken play. I am not sure that he would create the same spark as Cooper in a far more structured position. I think that this spark is important to the current make up of the attacking structure.
That being said, the 10/12 channel does need shoring up. Giteau's defence (although apparently he did not miss a tackle v England) is hardly dominating and it would add in a real attacking defender in here (anyone remember Tim Horan?). Someone who will put the opposition on the back foot, force the odd turnover and, importantly, narrow Cooper's defensive channel. Here I am thinking maybe Anthony Faianga, Berrick Barnes or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (although then 13 needs a re-jig).

 

[Viking]

Some interesting comments above. In terms of backs selections, I am not sure that Beale would shore up the defence in the 10/12 channel much and believe that his strength is about injecting himself in broken play. I am not sure that he would create the same spark as Cooper in a far more structured position. I think that this spark is important to the current make up of the attacking structure.
That being said, the 10/12 channel does need shoring up. Giteau's defence (although apparently he did not miss a tackle v England) is hardly dominating and it would add in a real attacking defender in here (anyone remember Tim Horan?). Someone who will put the opposition on the back foot, force the odd turnover and, importantly, narrow Cooper's defensive channel. Here I am thinking maybe Anthony Faianga, Berrick Barnes or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (although then 13 needs a re-jig).

Or a fit Rob Horne would be the perfect fit at 12 outside Cooper, solid defender that can actually make a big hit. Can also make the occasional break and most importantly he's strong, plays above his weight and gets over the gain line. Nice offloader too. If only he can stay fit.

 

[TheTruth]

Reckon Beale should be given a shot at 10. QC (Quade Cooper)'s defence is horrible and lack of it seems to put substantial pressure on Pocock to cover. That is why he has to break so fast from the scrum and therefore puts some pressure on the rest of piggies. Seems impossibl;e to teach QC (Quade Cooper) to tackle but may be easier to teach KB (Kurtley Beale) to pass long