NSW AAGPS 2022

[rod skellet]

Not every school has 400 boys in every grade, so you can't hold every school to the same standard as Joeys.

I have no problem with scholarships. These elite rugby schools are more than just rugby development nurseries. They educate. They develop character. They build men. If a boy has something to offer a school, I see no issue with that school giving him a scholarship. Great education shouldn't just be for the wealthy. Those exceptional boys who are dedicated, who are disciplined, and who work hard to develop their craft (whatever that may be) deserve great education too.

We are gifted enough to be given the opportunity to go to schools like these. We know all the great opportunities and experiences they have given us. Why not help those exceptional kids get the same opportunities we were so fortunate to have.

I have to agree with SkyeBlue again here and add a few more facts.
According to wikipedia, Joeys has 1100 boys enrolled from years 7 to 12. Barker has 1700 boys from year K to year 12. Barker cannot compare to Knox our arch, and most respected rival down the road who has circa 2800 boys from year K to year 12. Given that circa 750 students are borders at Joeys (and being a ex border from Churchie in Brisbane) I know the uplift in talent borders give to rugby teams.

Joeys is the best rugby school in Australia. End of discussion. Its curriculum and quality of all round student is unquestioned from a rugby perspective. Joeys has earned its position. Barker will never threaten Joeys as a rugby school. As a school Barker is average in rugby across all age groups. It is very difficult to change this unless Barker becomes more Joeys like. But the powers that be who run the school understand the importance of the 1st XV and the positive impact it has on all the school kids, both male and female, that a win by the 1st XV brings. Every kid walks through the mint gates an inch taller if the 1st XV wins.

That confidence parlays into the entire culture of the school.
Kids doing fencing or tennis thrive on a win by the 1st XV. Kids who sit next to a 1st player in class are motivated to do better in school academically. You all might think I am talking crap, but I have witnessed it first hand. It's tangible and it's real.

Barker is a significantly better school if the 1st XV is competitive against the best. And Joeys is the best.
The price that is paid by the entire school community, (including the balance sheets of the paying parents) is that the school recruits well in year 10.
I have never been given hard facts, but my powers of observation over the past 10 years is that 2 or three boys/girls come into the school every year, in year 10 and invariably are selected for firsts rugby which enhances what would normally be considered a average private school rugby age group. All a 1st XV side needs is a couple of special players to make an average team into a very competitive team. And thats what Barker wants to be, in 1st XV rugby, is to be competitive.
Barker from observation understands the powerful drawcard a winning 1st XV brings to the entire school. The fact that Barker has a administration that loves rugby and understands the real tangible benefits it brings to the entire school should be applauded by the wider rugby community rather than discouraged. Luke Reimer, Billy Pollard and Isaiya Katoa are prime examples of talent that was nurtured by Barker. These players have gone onto bigger and better things following their time at Barker and Rugby Australia is the beneficiary.

Individuals supporters from competing schools may not like the end result, but your anguish is extinguished by the joy and confidence a winning 1st XV brings to all Barker students. Buying premierships is not the end game at Barker. Producing happy & high quality students who add to society is Barkers objective. Rugby and the 1st XV is a small but important part of that journey for its students.

 

[Joker]

. It was good advertisement for Kings rugby program in my opinion.

These lads were having successful league careers before Kings. They were just lucky that these boys accepted the assistance from the Old Boys Union. Nothing illegal here, just a group of well meaning dads finding places for two boys who where having stellar league careers BEFORE and DURING their time at Kings. To say Kings developed them would be an error in judgement.

 

[Joker]

Joeys is probably the absolute smallest of all GPS schools at about 1100 students but anyway.

1030 this year

 

[Joker]

BTW....

Not touching the 's'-word with a barge pole - Cyclopath sees and hears all...

Good advice. I would advise all to shut down discussion of the "word that not be mentioned" at once. Nothing personal, but we have been banging on about this for almost 10 years. Discussion here is about the rugby and not the "s" word.

 

[rugboy]

yes and no, a few counters (and a little bit of a rant

1) if that was the case (that media exposure would create momentum) then both Barker and Kings wouldn't have such miserable 13's 14's and 15's this year. Unmentionable arrangements have been in place for a very long time at both schools. Scots too would be much more consistent in age group teams and so would Knox. Any media doesn't so much advertise the Kings rugby program, it advertises 2 exceptional athletes that attended Kings a bit. Note that Sua'ali'i in particular hardly trained with Kings at all and didn't play any rugby in his final 2 years. Penisini on the other hand was more on board so perhaps give some credit for that.
2) there have been a number of boys at Joeys dabbling with league in the last few years although none this year that I am aware of. However, they have been fee paying and outside obligations cannot ever interfere with school commitments of any kind (including the occasional Sunday mass)
3) NRL clubs would stop sending in contracted players to schools and thus crowding out development opportunities for true rugby men.

If rugby in Australia wants to punch properly on a world scale then it can't allow itself to be regularly raided by mercenaries. We are the only country in the world that must compete with 2 other winter contact codes to attracting talent. Valued properly we have the game that offers the most compelling opportunities overall (remuneration, internationalism, connections etc etc) why give it away cheaply?

Blasphemy on this page (I know) however it could be time, perhaps part of the solution is to establish a senior XV schools competition that preserves the traditions but opens up the contest more widely. Rather than play so many trials play a GPS, CAS, and Other cross over tournament that still allows a GPS and CAS champion to be confirmed, an overall champion school and perhaps offer a second tier with promotion and relegation opportunities. It might also introduce the posibility of High, Grammar and TAS occasionally challenging for the GPS crown again instead of the permanent 3rd XV status.

I love the GPS tradition and would never want to abandon it but I think it needs to evolve for the good of the game.

I think you will find if you look at the Balmain Tigers Harold Matthews Squad you will recognise more than a couple of Joeys lads on the list.

I don't think there is any issue at all with "Rugby League" aligned boys being involved in First XV rugby, representative rugby or being offerred places at GPS/CAS schools. I had the pleasure of hearing former ASRU President Br Bob Wallace many years ago talk at a function after a schoolboys game about the role of schools and the ASRU. He made the point that schools are to educate and provide co-curricular opportunities, the ASRU is there to provide opportunities for all schoolboys to represent their school, association, state and country and the ARU (as it was then) has the job to develop the next batch of Wallabies. He cheekily suggested that some were doing better at their jobs than others.

The suggestion that "rugby in Australia" means or includes schools I think puts the wrong onus on these institutions. RA contribute very little to schools and these competitions, we all realise money is scarce. This doesn't mean that schools are obliged to pull the weight for RA.

League doesn't rely on schools to develop players. Clubs develop players, with the majority of that money in grants from the NRL.

 

[chupapi]

Hello Dave,

At this current moment in time, I would put Joeys over Scots. Keep in mind during the Barker vs Scots game there were 8 out of the 15 regular 1stXV players not playing (injury/illness). It really wasn't the same Barker calibre team that Joey's had to face. Joey's impressed me vs a much healthier Barker team (especially if those flu rumours are true). Really fit tight-five. A great scrummaging team despite a smaller pack. Also, having the second-best NSW schoolboys player in my opinion at fullback gives them some strike power, having the ability to make something out of nothing. Also well-drilled as always. I believe the score was something like 30-12 but that doesn't really reflect how good of a team Joeys are. Some uncharacteristic mistakes kept Joeys out of the game, and Barker's defence both in the middle and on the edge was incredible. Could have gone Joeys way on a different day.

I'm yet to see Shore play however, obviously heard great things. I hope they are as good as what I've heard. Schoolboy footy is best with as many teams competing as possible. Perhaps my opinion will change after I've seen them.

I think TKS could pull out some surprising results, they were quite good vs Joeys, especially in the second half where they were quite dominant, but Joeys scrambling defence and heart were too good, and their set-peice defence was great. Overall I think don't think this is our year. Not to worry though, some very exciting and young prospects.

Overall, I think this will be an interesting year in GPS footy.

I'd like to say that barker were not missing anyone apart from there 9 who didn't play against joeys either and potentially a prop absolute horrid chat from you. But i'm guessing your sitting on the joeys bandwagon and cannot for see that joeys might not be the favourites for the 100th year in a row evidence to this 'the forum' i'd like to make a special mention to my main guy the JOKER what a crackin bloke with what seems like the only logical writer on here. And for now good luck to all you amazing writers xox

 

[dingleberry458]

Hello Dave,

At this current moment in time, I would put Joeys over Scots. Keep in mind during the Barker vs Scots game there were 8 out of the 15 regular 1stXV players not playing (injury/illness). It really wasn't the same Barker calibre team that Joey's had to face. Joey's impressed me vs a much healthier Barker team (especially if those flu rumours are true). Really fit tight-five. A great scrummaging team despite a smaller pack. Also, having the second-best NSW schoolboys player in my opinion at fullback gives them some strike power, having the ability to make something out of nothing. Also well-drilled as always. I believe the score was something like 30-12 but that doesn't really reflect how good of a team Joeys are. Some uncharacteristic mistakes kept Joeys out of the game, and Barker's defence both in the middle and on the edge was incredible. Could have gone Joeys way on a different day.

I'm yet to see Shore play however, obviously heard great things. I hope they are as good as what I've heard. Schoolboy footy is best with as many teams competing as possible. Perhaps my opinion will change after I've seen them.

I think TKS could pull out some surprising results, they were quite good vs Joeys, especially in the second half where they were quite dominant, but Joeys scrambling defence and heart were too good, and their set-peice defence was great. Overall I think don't think this is our year. Not to worry though, some very exciting and young prospects.

Overall, I think this will be an interesting year in GPS footy.

at the end of the day, Scots defeated Barker convincingly, and Joeys lost to Barker convincingly. you can argue wether certain players weren't there against joeys blah blah blah. wether mistakes from joeys were uncharacteristic or not, they happened. that 'incredible defense' barker had in the middle and on the edge, Scots had to face as well, and broke through multiple times. the scoreline is what it is, wether it reflects what YOU think of Joeys/Scots or not. The objective is in favour of Scots in front at the moment. (Also according to Chupapi only the 9 and 1 or 2 forwards were missing, not the 8 players you claim - big difference).

 

[SkyBlue]

I'd like to say that barker were not missing anyone apart from there 9 who didn't play against joeys either and potentially a prop absolute horrid chat from you. But i'm guessing your sitting on the joeys bandwagon and cannot for see that joeys might not be the favourites for the 100th year in a row evidence to this 'the forum' i'd like to make a special mention to my main guy the JOKER what a crackin bloke with what seems like the only logical writer on here. And for now good luck to all you amazing writers xoxo

Ahhhhh the infamous bored schoool kid. Barker was missing a Prop, their Hooker, their 6/centre, their Halfback, a Centre, their Fullback, and a Winger... and then a boy who played injured and came off after the first 2 minutes... Move along boys

 

[Joker]

weather certain players.......weather it reflects what YOU think......

Hey Dingle.....wrong use of the word "weather"
This word spelling relates to things like "dark clouds" gathering over the Death Star.

So....

100 x "weather" is NOT a conjunction expressing a doubt or choice between alternatives.

 

[WLF3]

yes and no, a few counters (and a little bit of a rant

1) if that was the case (that media exposure would create momentum) then both Barker and Kings wouldn't have such miserable 13's 14's and 15's this year. Unmentionable arrangements have been in place for a very long time at both schools. Scots too would be much more consistent in age group teams and so would Knox. Any media doesn't so much advertise the Kings rugby program, it advertises 2 exceptional athletes that attended Kings a bit. Note that Sua'ali'i in particular hardly trained with Kings at all and didn't play any rugby in his final 2 years. Penisini on the other hand was more on board so perhaps give some credit for that.
2) there have been a number of boys at Joeys dabbling with league in the last few years although none this year that I am aware of. However, they have been fee paying and outside obligations cannot ever interfere with school commitments of any kind (including the occasional Sunday mass)
3) NRL clubs would stop sending in contracted players to schools and thus crowding out development opportunities for true rugby men.

If rugby in Australia wants to punch properly on a world scale then it can't allow itself to be regularly raided by mercenaries. We are the only country in the world that must compete with 2 other winter contact codes to attracting talent. Valued properly we have the game that offers the most compelling opportunities overall (remuneration, internationalism, connections etc etc) why give it away cheaply?

Blasphemy on this page (I know) however it could be time, perhaps part of the solution is to establish a senior XV schools competition that preserves the traditions but opens up the contest more widely. Rather than play so many trials play a GPS, CAS, and Other cross over tournament that still allows a GPS and CAS champion to be confirmed, an overall champion school and perhaps offer a second tier with promotion and relegation opportunities. It might also introduce the posibility of High, Grammar and TAS occasionally challenging for the GPS crown again instead of the permanent 3rd XV status.

I love the GPS tradition and would never want to abandon it but I think it needs to evolve for the good of the game.

OS, Your idea of a senior comp that still awards a winner within each comp is something I, and others, have put forward over the last few years. To be brutally honest the idea got punished by a lot of GPS people, I get it, but the CAS and ISA also care about their own comps. I have always maintained that the "trials" between these schools are full on, no 1st XV team doesn't want to win, so why not reconstruct it so the best teams play each other in a bigger comp, that would also have a relegation/promotion system between maybe 2 different divisions.

The old thoughts were the CAS and some ISA schools like Oakhill can't compete V the GPS schools is BS these days.
Think of the promotional opportunities of playing a final as an opener to a Wallabies game, WOOOOW!

Joker I expect a thumbs up from you, ha!

 

[dusk]

at the end of the day, Scots defeated Barker convincingly, and Joeys lost to Barker convincingly. you can argue weather certain players weren't there against joeys blah blah blah. weather mistakes from joeys were uncharacteristic or not, they happened. that 'incredible defense' barker had in the middle and on the edge, Scots had to face as well, and broke through multiple times. the scoreline is what it is, weather it reflects what YOU think of Joeys/Scots or not. The objective is in favour of Scots in front at the moment. (Also according to Chupapi only the 9 and 1 or 2 forwards were missing, not the 8 players you claim - big difference).

not sure why you are not mentioning the fact that scots tied with Newington... This is the first time in I believe 5+ years that Newington HASN'T lost to scots. Do what you want with that information

 

[chupapi]

Ahhhhh the infamous bored schoool kid. Barker was missing a Prop, their Hooker, their 6/centre, their Halfback, a Centre, their Fullback, and a Winger... and then a boy who played injured and came off after the first 2 minutes... Move along boys

ahhhhhh the infamous know it all bored man. I find that they were not missing that many people...... scots were also missing a winger and their 12 and one of their main lineout jumpers but sky blue you do know everything so I'll wait for retaliation message.

 

[Joker]

Joker I expect a thumbs up from you, ha!

a small thumbs up.....

The ethos of the sport in the AAGPS is to promote games and friendships between our schools. While do enjoy games against ISA/CAS schools, these are mainly to fill in gaps for us. Joeys have 40 teams most years. When we play another GPS school, say $cots we often find teams match up as they too have a large rugby population. While Oakhill College (who I admire) have come along in great strides, they do not have the number of teams to match our depth. When you promote or demote a 1st XV team, you are doing that to the whole program not just the 1st XV. Imagine the scenario for Joeys and the 1000 students who must attend games.....three senior teams playing in the three different venues. The transport arrangements are a nightmare.

So, I agree we should enjoy playing each other in these games and see them for what they are. A chance to gauge the teams and to enjoy the hospitality of another school. (Oakhill has in the past had a killer BBQ)

 

[dingleberry458]

not sure why you are not mentioning the fact that scots tied with Newington... This is the first time in I believe 5+ years that Newington HASN'T lost to scots. Do what you want with that information

First game of the season is always a shaky one for any team, didn't mention it because its not a reasonable metric to measure a teams ability. Just because Its the first time its happened in 5 years doesn't mean Scots has gotten worse, maybe Newington have gotten better. Its also important to note that this is the first time Scots has faced Newington as the very first trial game in that 5 year span you talked about, (correct me if i'm wrong) something to consider.

 

[WLF3]

a small thumbs up.....

The ethos of the sport in the AAGPS is to promote games and friendships between our schools. While do enjoy games against ISA/CAS schools, these are mainly to fill in gaps for us. Joeys have 40 teams most years. When we play another GPS school, say $cots we often find teams match up as they too have a large rugby population. While Oakhill 1st XV (who I admire) have come along in great strides, they do not have the number of teams and depth. When you promote or demote a team, you are doing that to the whole program not just the 1st XV. Imagine the scenario for Joeys and the 1000 students who must attend games.....three senior teams playing in the three different venues. The transport arrangements are a nightmare.

So, I agree we should enjoy playing each other in these games and see them for what they are. A chance to gauge the teams and to enjoy the hospitality of another school. (Oakhill has in the past had a killer BBQ)

Joker, as you well know, you can make friendships with lots of people, which I really enjoy! Not just a small band, AND I agree Tradition is VERY important, thus the various comp winners acclaimed within a bigger/stronger comp should probably be kept, no probs.
I think your comment that the games v CAS/IS schools just fill in the gaps is a bit loose, these days, and over the decades, the GPS lose to strong CAS/ISA schools frequently.
Yes no doubt the matchup logistics are tough, but for Joeys it is tough most/every week. My view only relates to the 1sts XV teams, all the other teams could play essentially the 1 school if the numbers basically matchup. This is just a mindset change which IMO would be embraced over a short period of time as supporters get to see who really is the best each year. Transport arrangements are a nightmare, probably already, but this chat is about moving the schools game forward and hopefully benefits the higher levels of Aussie rugby. Logistics shouldn't rule the roost IMO, and I am sure all supporters will support their school regardless of who they are playing, often the matchups will be the same school throughout the age groups.

There is already a special 3rds comp in the GPS......

 

[Joker]

GPS lose to strong CAS/ISA schools frequently.

GPS 1st XV's lose to CAS/ISA schools.....not the whole school.

In 2018, TRINITY 1st XV beat Joeys 1st XV BUT the following results as well occurred that day (a sample)

Joeys 2nds beat Trinity 2nd's 109-0
Joeys 5ths beat Trinity 3rd's 93-0
Joeys 9th beat Trinity 4th's 69-15
Joeys 16D beat Trinity 16B's 62-0
Joeys 16F beat Trinity 16C's 32-7
Joeys 15H beat Trinity 15C's 42-34

Playing a whole round would be good for ONE team.
A focus on one team destroys a rugby program.

 

[WLF3]

GPS 1st XV's lose to CAS/ISA schools.....not the whole school.

In 2018, TRINITY 1st XV beat Joeys 1st XV BUT the following results as well occurred that day (a sample)

Joeys 2nds beat Trinity 2nd's 109-0
Joeys 5ths beat Trinity 3rd's 93-0
Joeys 9th beat Trinity 4th's 69-15
Joeys 16D beat Trinity 16B's 62-0
Joeys 16F beat Trinity 16C's 32-7
Joeys 15H beat Trinity 15C's 42-34

Playing a whole round would be good for ONE team.
A focus on one team destroys a rugby program.

J, there are many similar examples over the years, sorry, but using Trinity is a poor example.

I am suggesting that the 1sts game doesn't have to mirror the same school throughout the age groups . ALL the other teams could play another school that essentially matches up through the grades, in other words the 1sts is a different situation, AND where IT IS appropriate you would play that same schools 1sts. Given that the GPS is so strong then you would imagine that based on a results based criteria you would see the GPS age groups all face up against each other, if not the case, then why would that be encouraged?

I don't agree that a focus on one team destroys a rugby program, that is your ascertain, not sure there is any proof of that, I think new generations adapt.

 

[Lindommer]

Let's get back to the main game, the rugby between various schools.

 

[Hankspank]

For some reason there is a game that is missing from the guides.
Oakhill is also playing this weekend V Shore at Northbridge
Might need to add that to your tipping Joker.
On a side note Joker the BBQ at Oakhill is still outstanding. 2200 steak/sausage sandwiches sold last last Saturday at Gala Day can't be wrong.

 

[Joker]

For some reason there is a game that is missing from the guides.
Oakhill is also playing this weekend V Shore at Northbridge
Might need to add that to your tipping Joker.
On a side note Joker the BBQ at Oakhill is still outstanding. 2200 steak/sausage sandwiches sold last last Saturday at Gala Day can't be wrong.

I am only doing tipping for the 1st XV games involving GPS schools
See below for this weeks games which I published on Monday.

Great to hear the BBQ is up to its excellent standard. I had a cracking steak sandwich there once.