NSW Waratahs v Qld Reds round 4 2009 official TYS thread
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PhucNgo
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fatprop said:
Sorry, no room for Lote, Burkey's doing a great job running the tee, and that's about all Lote's good for. I have absolutely no idea why people rate him. Reading Noddy's article, he even seems to have Ioane fooled.
Let me be clear on my position here: He's not that quick. He can't pass. He can't kick. He cannot swerve. He has no step. He has no fend. He has poor ball security. (Am I sounding like cameraman?)
People wised up to him about 4-5 years ago. Prior to that everyone tried to take him high and his upper body strength allowed him to push tacklers away. Now everyone just goes straight for his ankles because they know he won't palm them off. Why even tonight Lucas, who must be half Lote's size, took him down around the bootstraps with ease. As did most everyone else I might add.
Things will start getting interesting soon. The Big Rat was at tonight's game and doesn't seem to have any problem with his foot injury. Probably still needs some conditioning after a lengthy layoff tho - but his return can't be that far away.
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
My thoughts the day after the night before.
Typicaly Qld-NSW game, and as per the last few years, NSW have played the grittier footy and it ultimately got them home.
The reds were smashed upfront, taking hardman off for Fainga was good for us. Braid did well for the reds but MMM was easily their best forward and its very tight between him and Barnes for the best Qld player on the day.
The Qld backs looked slick, but I give most of the credit to Barnes. Cooper had a pretty mixed game and it depends on what your preconcieved ideas of him are as to whether you say he had a good or bad game. I would give him the points over Beale though, but neither landed a knock out blow. Hynes matched Turner as the best wingers on the field. Ioane was a little quite for the Reds, which surpised me.
As for our guys, I thought we made way too many mistakes with ball in hand. Many times we had good field position only for someone to make a silly mistake, not dissimilar to the Chiefs game. Other than one very well executed move by the Reds, our defence was excellent and that try saver by Turner in the corner was beautiful.
I am not sure how SNK got MoM, a solid performance but not a stand out for mine. I would have given it to one of the tah forwards, probably Mumm.
Sheehan must be getting close to a starting gig over burgess for us. ITs also time for Beau Robinson to start coming on for Waugh in the 50-60 mark as I think our old warrior's legs aren't holding up in the latter parts at the moment. Also, as FatProp has been saying, we need to start resting our props.
Some (more) irreverant points:
- the interplay between burkey and turinui was funny to watch. They were having a great time giving it to each other and Turinuin even tried to hip and shoulder burkey at one satge.
- Robbie deans was having a few quiet beers and a feed before the match, Stanniforth was part of the group. Satnners looked very fit, when is he due back?
Typicaly Qld-NSW game, and as per the last few years, NSW have played the grittier footy and it ultimately got them home.
The reds were smashed upfront, taking hardman off for Fainga was good for us. Braid did well for the reds but MMM was easily their best forward and its very tight between him and Barnes for the best Qld player on the day.
The Qld backs looked slick, but I give most of the credit to Barnes. Cooper had a pretty mixed game and it depends on what your preconcieved ideas of him are as to whether you say he had a good or bad game. I would give him the points over Beale though, but neither landed a knock out blow. Hynes matched Turner as the best wingers on the field. Ioane was a little quite for the Reds, which surpised me.
As for our guys, I thought we made way too many mistakes with ball in hand. Many times we had good field position only for someone to make a silly mistake, not dissimilar to the Chiefs game. Other than one very well executed move by the Reds, our defence was excellent and that try saver by Turner in the corner was beautiful.
I am not sure how SNK got MoM, a solid performance but not a stand out for mine. I would have given it to one of the tah forwards, probably Mumm.
Sheehan must be getting close to a starting gig over burgess for us. ITs also time for Beau Robinson to start coming on for Waugh in the 50-60 mark as I think our old warrior's legs aren't holding up in the latter parts at the moment. Also, as FatProp has been saying, we need to start resting our props.
Some (more) irreverant points:
- the interplay between burkey and turinui was funny to watch. They were having a great time giving it to each other and Turinuin even tried to hip and shoulder burkey at one satge.
- Robbie deans was having a few quiet beers and a feed before the match, Stanniforth was part of the group. Satnners looked very fit, when is he due back?
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
I'm not sure that this game actually did prove how important the forwards are. It proves how important the fly-half is. We had an absolutely dominant scrum and lineout, shaded them in the R&M, yet almost lost the game because of the 10-12 channel.
We would have lost the game if it weren't for SNK getting us some field position. The bloke can take the ball 20 metres behind Beale and still kick the ball effectively into the corners. Why Beale didn't do it is a mystery. Quade made some errors but fuck I wished he was on our side.
Horne must play 12 for the Tahs to have a chance at anything this season. Our ball died there time after time. Again, no idea why Beale kept dishing it out when all that ever happened was we turned the ball over. To be fair the the young bloke, Bernie Larkham was terrible in kick-to-the-conrners situations.
I thought the defence needed to switch much more to rush, I thought we were giving Cooper-Barnes too much time to think something up. Still, only one try so can't complain too much. But if QLD won a couple more lineouts in the Tah 22, they would have scored more.
Lote was absolute rubbish. Not only is he a very average winger, he sucks up a bit of Turner's and SNK's games by refusing to ever play fullback.
Anyway, this has turned out to be a rant. Well done Tah forwards, thanks for the win. That reminds me, at one point Dean Mumm gestured to Kurtley to keep his passes lower. That says it all.
We would have lost the game if it weren't for SNK getting us some field position. The bloke can take the ball 20 metres behind Beale and still kick the ball effectively into the corners. Why Beale didn't do it is a mystery. Quade made some errors but fuck I wished he was on our side.
Horne must play 12 for the Tahs to have a chance at anything this season. Our ball died there time after time. Again, no idea why Beale kept dishing it out when all that ever happened was we turned the ball over. To be fair the the young bloke, Bernie Larkham was terrible in kick-to-the-conrners situations.
I thought the defence needed to switch much more to rush, I thought we were giving Cooper-Barnes too much time to think something up. Still, only one try so can't complain too much. But if QLD won a couple more lineouts in the Tah 22, they would have scored more.
Lote was absolute rubbish. Not only is he a very average winger, he sucks up a bit of Turner's and SNK's games by refusing to ever play fullback.
Anyway, this has turned out to be a rant. Well done Tah forwards, thanks for the win. That reminds me, at one point Dean Mumm gestured to Kurtley to keep his passes lower. That says it all.
disco
Chilla Wilson (44)
The Reds could have won this game at the start of the 2nd half, I don't blame McLinden for going himself but I still think one more pass to Hynes & we were over for sure.
SNK should have been penalised for a deliberate knock on when he chopped down Barnes pass to Ioane who was over in the corner, not a yellow card but at least a full arm.
Credit to the Tahs they scrambled well in that period of the 2nd half & then basically dominated field position for the rest of the game.
Plenty of big hits & even though there was only 3 tries scored there was still plenty of clean line breaks to keep the running rugby fans happy.
Pretty tough to pick a MOM as most players who did something good also produced something bad but my pick was Benn Robinson he is pure class.
SNK should have been penalised for a deliberate knock on when he chopped down Barnes pass to Ioane who was over in the corner, not a yellow card but at least a full arm.
Credit to the Tahs they scrambled well in that period of the 2nd half & then basically dominated field position for the rest of the game.
Plenty of big hits & even though there was only 3 tries scored there was still plenty of clean line breaks to keep the running rugby fans happy.
Pretty tough to pick a MOM as most players who did something good also produced something bad but my pick was Benn Robinson he is pure class.
fatprop said:
My first reaction on watching it live was to call it an attempt to intercept the ball. His Ancientness (aka LG) sitting next to me thought otherwise and called for SNK to be penalised. So, we carefully watched the replay and both agreed SNK made an attempt to gather the ball. No penalty, knock on.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
It actually wasn't too bad a game to watch considering the litany of mistakes in the second half and the sheer sillyness of the Waratahs tactics. At least I picked the game right with my tipping, and got the margin as well, even if my team didn't win. This was the first time in a few years though when the Reds have actually looked like they could really win the game. The gap between the teams is probably the lowest it's been since the Tahs first won in 2005.
Few points: NSW scrum wasn't so dominant, I thought. They got a few penalties, and were definitely the better unit, but mostly when they tried a big drive on the Reds scrum it didn't come off and the scrum didn't really. I was surprised though that the Reds managed also to make the NSW scrum messy a few times.
NSW lineout completely dominant. Mumm jumping defensively at 2 was superb. S. Fainga'a is useless at throwing in the ball and working with his jumpers. Agree with Noddy - the lineout is what won NSW the game and gave them the weight of possession that allowed such a stupid low percentage play to result in Tahu's try.
The Reds really erred on tactics as well. Once they got in front they really went pear shaped and player a much too conservative game and started ignoring there attacking opportunities to put in kicks instead. When they kept turning over possession, you got the feeling that the Tahs getting the next points to win the game was inevitable.
However the Reds got their tactics wrong, the Tahs were worse. The Tahs were behind in the second half, and their tactics? Midfield bombs. The Tahs are really the new Bulls: forward dominance, kick and chase. They had some wonderful forward play for the first try, yet all their back play amounts to on 95% of plays is kick and chase of pointless midfield bombs. I'd actually like to see Beale dropped, he offers nothing right now and made a lot of incorrect decisions on when to run and pass and kick. He's very one dimensional right now, even his cross field kicks will be waited on. Not to mention that the Reds usually seemed to win the longer kicking duels.
Which brings us to Beale vs Cooper. First half, it was all Cooper and no Beale. Wonderful kicking for territory from Cooper, but his passing game suddenly went erratic from the pressure. Beale was just still giving poor short passes. First half points to Cooper. Second half, Cooper got his passing game right but point in some clangers for kicks. Beale continued with nothing short passes and nothing kicks, one of which somehow got the winning try. Earlier this year there was a thread predicting if Beale will make the Wallabies. On Beale's performances so far, no way. As Scarfie said, Cooper playing for the Tahs would've give the Tahs a real extra dimension.
Carter? HA! Anyone want to even try to defend him? He brings nothing to the team but solid defence. Why select him?
Good to see Turner back himself and pull off a nice stepping run. That's something the Tahs really need more of.
Fetoai? My dislike of him grows every game. Good work to pounce on a Tahs error, woeful work to ignore oodles of support and blow a try. He stops, looks for support, and ignores it. Mind blowing stuff. At least he is usually solid defensively. Probably worth 1.2 Carters, but not good enough.
SNK getting MotM was a curious decision.
The Tahs were a better around the rucks and mauls, but the battle of the loosies was perhaps the one area in the forwards which was even. 3M was the only Reds tight forward who seemed to stand up in the tight. Reds will desperately be sweating on Horwill returning.
Tahs need something to happen in their backs. They are, seriously, the most boring rugby team in the SH. They'd suit the NH to a tee the way they are playing. I'd drop Beale for Hangers, and like most, move Horne to 12, Tahu to 13, drop Carter completely and bring Cararro onto the bench.
Oh, who is the Tahs backs coach? Because someone needs to tell him he's doing a shocking job.
Few points: NSW scrum wasn't so dominant, I thought. They got a few penalties, and were definitely the better unit, but mostly when they tried a big drive on the Reds scrum it didn't come off and the scrum didn't really. I was surprised though that the Reds managed also to make the NSW scrum messy a few times.
NSW lineout completely dominant. Mumm jumping defensively at 2 was superb. S. Fainga'a is useless at throwing in the ball and working with his jumpers. Agree with Noddy - the lineout is what won NSW the game and gave them the weight of possession that allowed such a stupid low percentage play to result in Tahu's try.
The Reds really erred on tactics as well. Once they got in front they really went pear shaped and player a much too conservative game and started ignoring there attacking opportunities to put in kicks instead. When they kept turning over possession, you got the feeling that the Tahs getting the next points to win the game was inevitable.
However the Reds got their tactics wrong, the Tahs were worse. The Tahs were behind in the second half, and their tactics? Midfield bombs. The Tahs are really the new Bulls: forward dominance, kick and chase. They had some wonderful forward play for the first try, yet all their back play amounts to on 95% of plays is kick and chase of pointless midfield bombs. I'd actually like to see Beale dropped, he offers nothing right now and made a lot of incorrect decisions on when to run and pass and kick. He's very one dimensional right now, even his cross field kicks will be waited on. Not to mention that the Reds usually seemed to win the longer kicking duels.
Which brings us to Beale vs Cooper. First half, it was all Cooper and no Beale. Wonderful kicking for territory from Cooper, but his passing game suddenly went erratic from the pressure. Beale was just still giving poor short passes. First half points to Cooper. Second half, Cooper got his passing game right but point in some clangers for kicks. Beale continued with nothing short passes and nothing kicks, one of which somehow got the winning try. Earlier this year there was a thread predicting if Beale will make the Wallabies. On Beale's performances so far, no way. As Scarfie said, Cooper playing for the Tahs would've give the Tahs a real extra dimension.
Carter? HA! Anyone want to even try to defend him? He brings nothing to the team but solid defence. Why select him?
Good to see Turner back himself and pull off a nice stepping run. That's something the Tahs really need more of.
Fetoai? My dislike of him grows every game. Good work to pounce on a Tahs error, woeful work to ignore oodles of support and blow a try. He stops, looks for support, and ignores it. Mind blowing stuff. At least he is usually solid defensively. Probably worth 1.2 Carters, but not good enough.
SNK getting MotM was a curious decision.
The Tahs were a better around the rucks and mauls, but the battle of the loosies was perhaps the one area in the forwards which was even. 3M was the only Reds tight forward who seemed to stand up in the tight. Reds will desperately be sweating on Horwill returning.
Tahs need something to happen in their backs. They are, seriously, the most boring rugby team in the SH. They'd suit the NH to a tee the way they are playing. I'd drop Beale for Hangers, and like most, move Horne to 12, Tahu to 13, drop Carter completely and bring Cararro onto the bench.
Oh, who is the Tahs backs coach? Because someone needs to tell him he's doing a shocking job.
Both Beale and Cooper will get mullered by some defence one day soon with their hopping.
I'm with Ash - Hangers to 10, Horne to 12 and try Tahu at 13. Horne really looks the goods but is getting nothing from having Beale and Carter inside.
I'm not sure who coaches the Tah backs? It is entirely possible no-one does, the way they're going.
I'm with Ash - Hangers to 10, Horne to 12 and try Tahu at 13. Horne really looks the goods but is getting nothing from having Beale and Carter inside.
I'm not sure who coaches the Tah backs? It is entirely possible no-one does, the way they're going.
R
rugbywhisperer
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Scarfman said:
Se lets see if I understand this correctly, you would have lost the game but for the dynamic and illustrious talents of a Queenslander. :fishing
Hmmm -
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