Reds 2014

[lewisr]

Go to 7:05 and listen to the interview from Quade. Seems like some pretty important messages in what he was saying there and I don't get why we hadn't been playing a high tempo game all season. It reminded me of that stuff we saw at the start of 2011 where Genia just slowed the whole game down at the ruck and it never works for them.

Sorry to be off topic but just some interesting stuff on maybe what the reds need to do to improve on this year.

 

[Caputo]

So what are the Red's to do with Albert Anae now?
Have they given up on converting him to a Hooker. Will he become the strongman in the scrum that Daley hasn't become.
I thought Jono Owens was clogging up a roster spot until Lions game.
Hasn't there be reports that Kevin Davis from EPS was heading to London Welsh, hoping that Sam Denny be upgraded and Parawaka or Kite from U20 be groomed as next cab off rank.
Would like you to make one of the two U20 hookers the third string Hooker and send the other to the Brumby Academy to develop. Keep Maile and send Andrew Ready south

 

[Ash]

These days they probably need 5 props in the main squad plus at least one in the wider training squad, so you'd think that the Reds 5 props would be Slipper, Holmes, Anae, Daley, Owens.

Denny and/or Kite would surely have to be in the EPS, or one in the squad and the other in the EPS if they decide to roll with 6 props in the main squad.

Regarding Anae, am I the only one that wants to see him at LH only from here on in? I think he would be the best scrummaging LHP the Reds have, going on this year's performances. Wouldn't be surprised if Anae knocks Holmes to the bench next year and gets plenty of starts at 1. Anae also is pretty handy around the field and with the ball in hand. edit: pretty sure you have Anae backwards, I thought he was a hooker cum prop.

Regarding Daley, Daley was a key player for the Reds in 2011 around the park, and a key reason why the scrum struggled. Daley was one of the main ball carriers in the pack and a work horse around the park. The Reds missed some of the work Daley did, but I still don't think it's worth carrying Daley for his liability in the scrums. They need to get another forward who can drag players over the advantage line from somewhere else.

Oh, and the Reds need a strong wider running backrower, who can carry mid field. Playing tight is fine, but the Reds forwards all tend to play very close to the ruck. Higgers played a wider role in previous years to great effect, and the plenty of the Crusaders forwards knew when to pop up midfield for an effective hit up (Whitelock, Romano, Read) when needed. Something that the Reds lacked this year, making their forward runners easy to pick off. When you keep coming around the corner one out, it gets very predictable and easy to defend if you can't get over the advantage line often.

 

[Braveheart81]

A big problem that I think the Reds have is that whilst Gill, Schatz and Quirk are all excellent players, they're all too similar so they create a backrow that lacks balance.

As many have highlighted, the Reds are missing the impact provided previously by Higginbotham and younger versions of Samo and Robinson.

Ideally the Reds need to come up with a backrow combination that only has two of Gill, Schatz and Quirk on the field at most times. All three of those players clearly belong in the matchday 23 though.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I don't think people should be too worried about the reds squad come 2014. We have an excellent spine in place, and off the top of my head I can think of numerous players in Brisbane Premier rugby and the reds college who can fill the voids left in the squad after this year.

Curtis Browning has signed a fulltime contract and will replace butler. I feel Browning is the bullocking runner the backrow needs.
Prop wise from what I have heard on the grapevine Denny is not the prop the Reds will be elevating.

If I was people I wouldn't be worried about the backline, to much. There is plenty of talent in Qld premier rugby, player like routledge/MciIntyre from sunnybank and Gillespie/Greene from Wests could fill the bit part utility spot that lance filled. While players like Kerevi (GPS), Bond & Creighton (Brothers), Parker & Taulagi (Uni) could fill the void left by players like Morahan & Ioane.

If I was a player like Aiden Toua or UJ from Easts i woudl be boarding a flight to NZ to prove that I can be a consistent performer at a level higher than premier grade.

 

[hammertimethere]

It must have come down to the point where they had to choose between Butler and Browning, and Curtis got the nod which is probably the right call if you've watched anything of club rugby the last year or two

 

[hammertimethere]

The other thing is, if the Reds are looking for a 2nd row/6 cover. Dave McDuling has been with them for a few years but not played beyond the Reds A team because of two ACL recons. He's back playing club for Uni and looking just dominant, like he did when he first turned up in QLD. It would be a punt, but I think the Reds will be keeping a close eye on his progress in a tough last month of Premier rugby for Uni and Finals

 

[Train Without a Station]

My thoughts on Saturday were that our backrow was just too small to really compete. Individually each players lack of size does not make too much of an issue but when your giving up 5+kg with each back rower it starts to add up. Liam Gill is small, even for a 7. That alone isn't really any issue. But when 6 and 8 are also on the smaller side I think it becomes one. I think their ability to really smash blokes off the ball on attack and provide platform for quick ball is a part of what unleashes out attack.

People talk about Jake Shatz being a potential Wallaby and I think Saturday night showed why he is not. He is really in the Ben McCalman/Richard Brown/Dave Dennis mould of being a little too big and short of a pace of being a 7, yet not big enough, powerful and impactful enough to be a leading 8. I'd say his lack of pace probably prevents him from being a real 6 option too.
Personally I see Quirk being the one to get there. Didn't rate him at first but 2013 was a big step forward for him and as previously mentioned he somewhat faded away towards the end which is to be expected from a player in his first full season. A good off season in the gym packing on maybe another 5kg of good quality weight and picking up from where he was in 2013 and he could really fill the Higginbotham void.

2014 is probably a critical year for Shatz. That's where we will see whether he is that number 8 we need, or whether he's fighting it out with Beau as our 4th back rower and we look for our starting 8.

Also the comment about being able to cycle through AWH, Beau, Radike, etc. is a valid one. But we need to remember all 3 of those players have spent a lot of time injured the last 2 years. That's both going to affect their impact, but also mean a player from below them in the pecking order will need to take their spots. I'm a true believer that premierships in addition to hard work and intelligent planning come down to a matter of luck, primarily in regards to maintaining the fitness of all your key players at that time. While the attack struggled a bit and the form of backs is concern as well as what I have mentioned, we were also going to be at a level below 2011 because of injuries in 2012 and 2013. Ensuring that level is as close as possible due to all factors in his control is the challenge for RG I guess.

 

[Ignoto]

Oh, and the Reds need a strong wider running backrower, who can carry mid field.

I thought Nigel ah wong was signed to be higgers' replacement? We've seen Quirk be very dynamic with the ball, but he and Shatz are too similar in build and impact. From the little I've seen of Nigel, I could have sworn he was more of Higgers than a Quirk/Shatz?

 

[Troy]

I wouldn't say LFG, JS or EQ are small by any stretch of the immagination.
Just to compare I puuled up some numbers from their respective franchise websites:

Liam Farkin Gill: 184cm 96Kg
Ed Quirk: 191cm 108kg
Jake Schatz: 192cm 109kg
Dave Dennis: 192cm 110kg
M Hooper:182cm 101kg
David Pocock: 184cm 104kg
George Smith: 180cm 104kg
Richie McCaw: 187cm 107kg
Kieran Read: 193cm 110kg

 

[Train Without a Station]

You don't menton the Wycliff Palu's and Fotu Alolua's who are pushing the 120kg mark. Even Mowen I believe is around 114kg.

Even based by that, McCaw, considered the best in the world is 11kg heavier than Gill. The best recent All Black back row had a big bopper in Kaino.

I'm not a huge size advocate, I believe Harinordaquay and Dussatoir from France are both a couple of the best loosies in the world and Harinordaquay would be around 108kg.

But having one big bopper amongst the Reds back row would not hurt. Especially when your front row (Holmes, Slipper, Finger and Hanson) are all on the lighter end of the normal scale for their position.

 

[Braveheart81]

It is definitely a balance question. As individuals, the Reds backrowers aren't that small, but as a combination they are.

 

[Troy]

I see where you're going and a big bopper would be nice, but there's not a lot of them going around. Even on Sat the Cru didn't have anyone that fitted that description.

6. George Whitelock: 190cm 106kg/Ed Quirk: 191cm 108kg
7. Matt Todd: 185cm 104kg/Liam Farkin Gill: 184cm 96Kg
8. Kieran Read: 193cm 110kg/Jake Schatz: 192cm 109kg

LFG gives up 8kg's there, as he's only 21 I'd ecpect him to bulk up over time as he did in the last pre season.

The rest of it is pretty square.

BTW Mowen is also listed at 110kg's - guess it's true the camera really does make you look bigger..

 

[Troy]

Fotu & Palu are 115kg & 116kg respectively. It would be interesting to know how much game time they've had when compared to the likes of JS.

 

[Troy]

On another note - has anyone heard anything else re the meeting between the Reds & the Honey Badger?

From the Force thread it sounds like JOC (James O'Connor) to the Force is a done deal but still some uncertainty re Cummins?

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think Shatz is where the issue is. Read is only 1kg heavier. But he's probably the best No. 8 in the world and due to that is technically, spatially and skilfully vastly superior to Shatz. It allows him to have the impact of 115kg+ at hitting rucks, tackles and on runs.

Not everybody can be absolutely world class technically and that deficiency at the professional level probably needs to be made up with size. The Reds fortunes seem to have followed both Higgers departure and Radike's personal form so I think back row is where the issue lies and can be resolved.

 

[Troy]

Agreed Read is shit hot, can only hope that as our backrow ages they get angry and continue to develop.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

./...snip.../.
LFG gives up 8kg's there, as he's only 21 I'd ecpect him to bulk up over time as he did in the last pre season.

While LFG is only 21, and "has time to grow", he really does need to be around the 100 kg mark to be competitive without compromising too much in his speed.

Being a little more chunky may be that Point of Difference that he needs over Super Hooper to secure the Wobs #7 jumper.

 

[Beer Baron]

I would ignore all those listed dimensions - Quirk 7cm taller than Gill?? and 108kg - not a chance. They would be about as accurate as the height on my Drivers licence

 

[tigerland12]

I thought Nigel ah wong was signed to be higgers' replacement? We've seen Quirk be very dynamic with the ball, but he and Shatz are too similar in build and impact. From the little I've seen of Nigel, I could have sworn he was more of Higgers than a Quirk/Shatz?

Ah Wong is very dynamic, and I wouldn't mind seeing him get a opportunity next season. The only thing that may be holding him down right now would be his weight, he's around 192cm, but only 102kg. Although do you risk loosing his dynamism and speed by putting on a bit more weight?

Here's some highlights of him from last year. From what I've seen of him this year he still plays very much like a backrow/centre and is very very fast and agile.

With Samo and now apparently Butler (first I'm hearing, can we get a source?) that leaves 2 spots in the 35 open, so Browning and Ah Wong would be good choices.

With the backs, I've always been very high on Danny Routledge from Sunnybank, seems like the ultimate utility (plays everywhere from 11-15). Everytime I've seen him play he has been one of the best on the park.

I would not be giving UJ a EPS again. Although he is playing much better this year, there are simply better players going around (Kerevi, Bond).

So if I've got my contracts right, the replacements I'd like to see would be....

Radike Samo> Curtis Browning, nothing needs to be said.
Luke Morahan> Nick Cummins (hopeful), we need a top level winger.
Jono Lance> Samu Kerevi, brilliant all year.
Digby Ioane> Jonah Placid, this kid is a freak.

Players who need to be re-signed
Ben Daley/Jono Owen: both players are handy to have, but I think one should give way to Phil Kite or Paul Alo-Emile (if we can get him)
Dave McDuling: I think Ed O'Donoghue already has this spot. He's a good player but I can't see him being retained, too risky.
Mike Harris: I would keep Mike, I think his utility value, especially with no more Jono Lance, will come in handy. Not in the 22, but incase of injuries.
Aiden Toua: Would keep him because we have already lost Morahan and Ioane.
Nick Frisby/Albert Anae/Chris F'Sautia/Greg Holmes/Ed Quirk: Defiantly re-sign

EPS Positions
Blake Enever: Developing well.
Maile Nguamo: I think he is more ready than Ready (no pun intended)
Nigel Ah Wong: Replacing Jarrad Butler (apparently?)
Sam Greene: with Dion Taumata dropping off this season, Greene is the best young fly half running around in the Brisbane Comp.
Michael Bond/Danny Routledge: Would probably go with Routledge because of his utility value, no need for Bond and Kerevi.

Reds College
Michael Stollberg: Best lock in Premier rugby this year.
Sam Denny, UJ Seuteni, Lachlan Creighton, Michael Bond, Pettowa Parraka, Andrew Ready, Michael Gunn, a halfback and a fly half.

So if all my rambling has made any sense, I guess we could see a squad like this. Keeping in mind that Nick Cummins is the only non Brisbane based player I have included. I think we have enough depth in the Premier Comp to bring through a lot of players. That being said, grabbing a high quality Centre, Outside Back, Prop would be great. But for this procrastination, lets pretend we wont.

Reds Squad
1- Greg Holmes
2- Saia Fainga'a
3- James Slipper
4- Rob Simmons
5- James Horwill
6- Ed Quirk
7- Liam Gill
8- Jake Shatz
9- Will Genia
10- Quade Cooper
11- Chris F'Sautia
12- Ben Tapuai
13- Anthony Fainga'a
14- Nick Cummins
15- Ben Lucas

16- James Hanson
17- Albert Anae
18- Ed O'Donghue
19- Curtis Browning
20- Beau Robinson
21- Nick Frisby
22- Dom Shipperely

23- Ben Daley
24- Phil Kite
25- Adam Wallace-Harrison
26- Mike Harris
27- Aiden Toua
28- Rod Davies (injury?)
29- Samu Kerevi
30- Jonah Placid

EPS
1- Maile Nguamo
2- Blake Enever
3- Nigel Ah Wong
4- Sam Greene
5- Danny Routledge

Reds College
Pettowa Parraka, Sam Denny, Andrew Ready, Michael Stollberg, Michael Gunn, Michael Bond, Lachlan Creighton, Ben Meehan, a fly half (for arguments sake lets say Matt Brandon )

Well I think that was a good 15minutes well wasted, fuck you work!