Reds 2017

[RedsHappy]

^^^^ @ wamberal

it's slowly bled out through now in our 4th year of mediocrity, the dilutive effects of imported 'stars' largely there for convenience, and serious managerial incompetence off the field compounding team disillusion on it.

 

[The torpedo]

If Australian Rugby was a video game, this would be its title:

 

[wamberal]

^^^^ @ wamberal

it's slowly bled out through now in our 4th year of mediocrity, the dilutive effects of imported 'stars' largely there for convenience, and serious managerial incompetence off the field compounding team disillusion on it.

And people criticise the ARU up hill and down dale for incompetence. Weird.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Wayne Smith in the Oz saying Reds are the most penalised team in the Comp which is a refection on the standards within the team.

The damage was done in the first 4 rounds - they averged 10 a game (with 15 against the Force). They haven't been *too* bad since then....

Reds - The bad
Most penalised
Most penalised in the ruck
2nd most penalised at the scrum
5th most handling errors
fewest dominant tackles
2nd worst tackles missed
16th most turnovers won
3rd most yellow cards
15th tries scored

The good
2nd most lineouts won
5th most lineouts stolen
4th most tackle breaks

 

[RedsHappy]

What a stunning confession and indictment, it's almost beyond belief after all the OTT pre-season hype.

Moore today: 'We're not good enough to win games at the moment.'

FFS.

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/04/08/13/02/reds-reax-post-brumbies-loss

And when he talks of the Brumbies revival after 2011 he neglects to mention just how that was done. Namely, principally by the ACTRU importing a RWC-winning HC and that HC changing just about everything in Brumbie land.

Compare and contrast re the QRU's approach post the Graham catastrophe.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Most penalised for the Reds
Kane Douglas - 9
Talakai - 6
Tupou - 5
Smith - 5
Paiaaua - 4
Vanzati - 4
Slipper - 4
Faagasse - 4
Higgers - 4


Missed Tackles
Kerevi - 17
Piaaua - 13
Talakai -10
HUnt - 10
Nabuli - 9
Perese - 7
Douglas - 7
Smith - 7
Tupou - 7
Korcyz - 7
Higgenbotham - 7

 

[gel]

The talk was justified, imagine a new competition started tomorrow with all teams having new coaches, support staff, management and club behind them.

Essentially get rid of all the baggage.

On paper you have to look at the Reds roster and think they were if not the best on paper team in Australia at least close to it. Most would also expect that when they lose they would be close games especially given the possible bench strength that the reds possess.

I am guilty of over rating the Reds but still think it was justified given the circumstances.

A fair enough point.

You may have been fortunate enough to witness quick organisation turnarounds in your life that leads you to the conclusion that rapid reversal of fortunes is possible.

I haven't. It's always taken significant time and energy from my experiences (regardless of the quality of staff and resources).

I think the Reds are hampered by a completely incompetent management group which will slow things down even more.

I was unconvinced by the appointment of Stile and co, but there's been a change at the home games. He says some things that are off, but he may be the goods

 

[liquor box]

A fair enough point.

You may have been fortunate enough to witness quick organisation turnarounds in your life that leads you to the conclusion that rapid reversal of fortunes is possible.

I haven't. It's always taken significant time and energy from my experiences (regardless of the quality of staff and resources).

I think the Reds are hampered by a completely incompetent management group which will slow things down even more.

I was unconvinced by the appointment of Stile and co, but there's been a change at the home games. He says some things that are off, but he may be the goods

Rapid change can happen but if wont last, it burns out employees and they start to leave or hate the job and lose passion, especially if they dont get massive bonuses.

I think this will occur with England, Eddie will burn them out

 

[liquor box]

Most penalised for the Reds
Kane Douglas - 9
Talakai - 6
Tupou - 5
Smith - 5
Paiaaua - 4
Vanzati - 4
Slipper - 4
Faagasse - 4
Higgers - 4


Missed Tackles
Kerevi - 17
Piaaua - 13
Talakai -10
HUnt - 10
Nabuli - 9
Perese - 7
Douglas - 7
Smith - 7
Tupou - 7
Korcyz - 7
Higgenbotham - 7

I am surprised by some of the missed tacklers.
Particularly Duncan P and Hunt. How many of their misses are after a break has been through the line and they have to try to run down an opponent first then bring them down?

The others dont surprise me but I would have bet money that front on in a defensive line that they would be close to the best in the team.

 

[RedsHappy]

A fair enough point.

You may have been fortunate enough to witness quick organisation turnarounds in your life that leads you to the conclusion that rapid reversal of fortunes is possible.

I haven't. It's always taken significant time and energy from my experiences (regardless of the quality of staff and resources).

I think the Reds are hampered by a completely incompetent management group which will slow things down even more.

I was unconvinced by the appointment of Stile and co, but there's been a change at the home games. He says some things that are off, but he may be the goods

gel, not to argue with you at all, but it's a fact that each of Link, Cheika, White made marked and sustained positive impacts to their respective team in the very first year of their appointments in all of w-l %, quality of play, obviously better selections and, too, individual players often playing better than they had in the immediate prior year.

The path to those teams' improvement via those successful coaches was relatively rapid.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I am surprised by some of the missed tacklers.
Particularly Duncan P and Hunt. How many of their misses are after a break has been through the line and they have to try to run down an opponent first then bring them down?

The others dont surprise me but I would have bet money that front on in a defensive line that they would be close to the best in the team.

To be fair to Duncan P, he has one of the highest tackle counts in the comp so his success % is pretty high, over 85%.
Hunt's at 75%, Talakai at 77%, Kerevi at 72%

Kerevi's got the most missed tackles in the comp

 

[The torpedo]

Anyone have a summary of last night's presser?

 

[Tomikin]

I guess given Sanday's performance off the bench we will see if Stile's hypocrisy exceeds his coaching talents.

The real question I'd like to know is how bad does our performance need to be before Jason Gilmore gets dumped? Players allegedly get dropped for conceding a penalty, where does 54 missed tackles land one? Or the 31 points per game conceded this season?

Heck, since Stiles joined the organisation we have won 13 from 55. At what point does that become a concern?

But hey our scrum is rock solid

The scrum that gave up a push over try ;-)

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[gel]

gel, not to argue with you at all, but it's a fact that each of Link, Cheika, White made marked and sustained positive impacts to their respective team in the very first year of their appointments in all of w-l %, quality of play, obviously better selections and, too, individual players often playing better than they had in the immediate prior year.

The path to those teams' improvement via those successful coaches was relatively rapid.

(not to argue with you either ), and yet each of those organisations reverted to type almost immediately that those individuals left.

I would venture to suggest that those exceptional individuals succeeded despite the organisation structure and that nothing was really changed other than they were simply there and were great enough to override the retardation that existed (and still does).

What systems did those individuals (successful though they were) put in place to ensure ongoing success?

The one individual that I can point to that was very instrumental was that Green fellow from the cowboys. he jumped in and things changed, but then the NRL teams are light years ahead of the super rugby organisations in this country - which is odd given how many of their players don't appear to be toilet trained

Anyway - I think Stiles might be OK, but will need time. I think the QRU are crapulent and need a massive clean out. I am also happy for other people to think differently.

 

[Simon.]

Having just watched the Force vs Kings, there is a very real possibility the Reds could lose to the Kings next week. In fact if it was being played anywhere other than Suncorp I'd call it highly likely.

If the Reds do lose to the Kings, Stiles will be in a pretty difficult position. He may even "have the full confidence of the QRU."

 

[dru]

We were always on the ropes with the novice coaching crew. Nothing new there. QRU, stacked with ARU cohorts, chose belated "coaching pathways" (is Ballymore car park) over potential internationals.

Then backed it up with more coaching pathways in the support staff.

It was always a bold set of moves. And it's not working (yet).i agree that Nick could be good in the long run. The QRUs problem is that our start point is not Nick's year 1, but many years of disaster.

I know you can get a false view of things on the tellie, but honest it seems our best looking play is when they go off-piste and play what is in front of them. Then Nick drags it back to mediocrity - the set game plan.

I guess that is somewhat unfair. Tough. Reds need to shake up. Nick might do
In the long run. Right now he is on the downside of predictions.

 

[thebreakdown]

Is Maranta a fullback?, certainly looked lost and lacked confidence ball in hand. He was found out from Larkham in the halftime comments. Last line of defence?, well I just wished I was a 10 playing against him. Terrible!!


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[RugbyReg]

Is Maranta a fullback?, certainly looked lost and lacked confidence ball in hand. He was found out from Larkham in the halftime comments. Last line of defence?, well I just wished I was a 10 playing against him. Terrible!!


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not a fullback. The two best QLD fullbacks were playing for the Brumbies. I'm not convinced he's a rugby player full stop. He can have a season playing for Wests and we can re-evaluate after that.

 

[biggsy]

Give Stile's one thing, he knows how to do a preseason Hype up and it suckered me in big time.

 

[Scoey]

What the hell happened to the old Queensland spirit? Where's their heart? Their passion for the jersey?


Bugger me. Brave men used to tremble when they fronted up against the Bananabenders.

This is a big part of it for me. Historically we have typically entered most matches as underdogs; the other team is always generally 'better' for whatever reason.
But QLD has always had that one thing that they could draw on to get the job done. Heart. Passion for the jersey, for the state. It seems to be gone.
In all of the great QLD teams in years past there has been a nexus of players that have been the heart and soul of the team, that inspire the others to greater things. This team doesn't have that. I don't even know if we have one player that fits that bill.
Then we have Stiles at the helm. He is absolutely one of these types of guys and is seemingly coaching the group as one. But he doesn't have a squad with this QLD mentality and determination and is trying to coach it into them which I don't think will ever work.
I can't see us turning this around any time soon.