People are likely to be more sceptical of the guy getting arrested twice for possession out partying than the guy who kept his problems a secret.
Reds 2018
- Thread starter The torpedo
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People are likely to be more sceptical of the guy getting arrested twice for possession out partying than the guy who kept his problems a secret.
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
It could be an alibi but what's to be achieved by speculating? He's getting punished. People are merely saying he should be supported if he has mental health issues.
I dont get your angle on this.
Sauron
Larry Dwyer (12)
I’m not saying it can’t have an impact, I’m saying that it will not solve the issues.
The only impact this can have is negative.
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
I've been avoiding getting involved here, yet here I am.
Firstly, for those of you that don't already know, depression manifests itself in different people in different ways. It can also manifest itself in the same individual in different ways over time. These are important facts to understand.
I speak from experience when I say, dealing with depression is hard for so many reasons. Here's some things I have learned:
At times when I am literally questioning my own worth, to hear or read others cynical views on the topic, reinforces my view that I am indeed probably worthless. I don't think I'm worth fixing and neither does this random person on the internet either so it must be true. This is not sarcasm, it's how it goes for me. Those that love me, tell me that because they have to, this weirdo on the internet though, he has no reason to lie. Do you see how that could happen?
Anyway, I should stress, I'm in a good place now and have been for a while. I'm safe and supported. I didn't write this for attention or sympathy, but without explaining honestly, how I feel at times, it would be hard for someone without depression to properly grasp what I and others deal with.
I understand why people get cynical about this issue. I don't understand though, why they can't be quietly cynical about it though. It's not hard to say nothing if it's not productive. The risk to those that deserve the cynicism is nothing. The risk to those that don't deserve the cynicism though, could be catastrophic. Just something to think about.
Firstly, for those of you that don't already know, depression manifests itself in different people in different ways. It can also manifest itself in the same individual in different ways over time. These are important facts to understand.
I speak from experience when I say, dealing with depression is hard for so many reasons. Here's some things I have learned:
- The feeling of worthlessness affects almost everything a person knows, understands, thinks and is willing to do about their illness. In order to fix something, it's generally got to be worth fixing right?;
- The level of worthlessness one feels is unique to them. But, it is common for one to feel completely worthless but then compare themselves to fanciful perceptions of others who are 'probably feeling more shit' thereby completely invalidating their own feelings of worthlessness. The result being, they feel more worthless than before. In other words, it's a classic downward spiral;
- It was true that the more awareness that depression gains, the better for sufferers. The stigma around talking about it falls away slowly. The truth for me though, is that sometime ago, it started becoming (in an awareness sense) "mainstream" and the people I used to talk to about my suffering (including professionals) started becoming more ambivalent towards it. We still don't know how to deal with people with depression and now they seem to be everywhere so it's all becoming a bit too hard. Cynicism started creeping in;
- I am certain that some people use depression, whether they have it or not, as an excuse for various actions;
At times when I am literally questioning my own worth, to hear or read others cynical views on the topic, reinforces my view that I am indeed probably worthless. I don't think I'm worth fixing and neither does this random person on the internet either so it must be true. This is not sarcasm, it's how it goes for me. Those that love me, tell me that because they have to, this weirdo on the internet though, he has no reason to lie. Do you see how that could happen?
Anyway, I should stress, I'm in a good place now and have been for a while. I'm safe and supported. I didn't write this for attention or sympathy, but without explaining honestly, how I feel at times, it would be hard for someone without depression to properly grasp what I and others deal with.
I understand why people get cynical about this issue. I don't understand though, why they can't be quietly cynical about it though. It's not hard to say nothing if it's not productive. The risk to those that deserve the cynicism is nothing. The risk to those that don't deserve the cynicism though, could be catastrophic. Just something to think about.
charlesalan
Sydney Middleton (9)
thank you for sharing your experience
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Scoey, I don't wish to go into detail, but I have had a close family member suffer from depression over the past 10 years, and I just have to say that your description of the feelings of worthlessness is right on the money. It took a long time to get my son to a place where he now values himself and his abilities/contributions again, and is leading a more "normal" life. My fear is that the problem could return at any time to afflict him again.
Thank you for your frank explanation.
Thank you for your frank explanation.
ShtinaTina
Alex Ross (28)
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
The word you should have put in inverted commas was “alibi”. There’s no alibi in anything he’s done or said.
His personal circumstances are not an excuse.
They are the explanation.
K(h)unt was in possession and did not test positive: that looks a bit cynical, besides which he had not given a third of his life to oz rugby.
Is the QRUs position public?
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
Depression is a big problem in our society and bigger problem in the male population. Slipper known to have been battling his demons prior to the drug test issues. Ok he has been punished but not kicked out and really would anybody want that with the message it sends? Now really out in the open so that hopefully means help given to not re-offend as clearly rules are third strike and out.
I had a father who was biopolar who for the last 20 years of his life struggled to enjoy one day of it...(died at 65 where he finally did an overdose after previous suicide attempts including slashing his wrists etc). Depression is a real problem in our society and stuff it I am prepared to cop Slipper a bit of slack as for those who have seen it or experienced it - it is a something that can be so black that you would not wish it on anybody.
fincoherent
Frank Row (1)
Just as an aside, cocaine increases your levels of dopamine and results in a feeling of euphoria and focus - something that I imagine would feel amazing if you were suffering from depression. The problem is that it also has a heavy comedown, often described as being like symptoms of depression. If one had depression, it would be something you'd crave, but could make the issues much worse by making the lows lower.
Combine that with the severe stress that comes with being a professional sports player, and the natural up-down highs and lows of gameday and training every week, and it could be a real recipe for disaster.
I think something that doesn't quite get talked about with regards to mental health and sport is that it must be so hard to talk to a lot of people about how hard the job is, because there's so many idiots out there who go "you get paid so much money and all you have to do is run around a bit! You don't have anything to complain about! I'd love to have your job!", ignoring the real issues specific to sport, such as the fact you could get injured and your career might be over in an instant, that your career will last, if you're really lucky, until you're in your late 30s, and the constant, constant stress and pressure to perform. What other job (air traffic controller aside maybe) has such a constant expectation that you have to bring your A game every.single.day? And god knows people will scream abuse at you left right and centre if they think you're not giving it your all. 99% of jobs you can have plenty of mediocre, average days and no one will care. Anyway, good luck to Slips. Hope he gets better soon.
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Combine that with the severe stress that comes with being a professional sports player, and the natural up-down highs and lows of gameday and training every week, and it could be a real recipe for disaster.
I think something that doesn't quite get talked about with regards to mental health and sport is that it must be so hard to talk to a lot of people about how hard the job is, because there's so many idiots out there who go "you get paid so much money and all you have to do is run around a bit! You don't have anything to complain about! I'd love to have your job!", ignoring the real issues specific to sport, such as the fact you could get injured and your career might be over in an instant, that your career will last, if you're really lucky, until you're in your late 30s, and the constant, constant stress and pressure to perform. What other job (air traffic controller aside maybe) has such a constant expectation that you have to bring your A game every.single.day? And god knows people will scream abuse at you left right and centre if they think you're not giving it your all. 99% of jobs you can have plenty of mediocre, average days and no one will care. Anyway, good luck to Slips. Hope he gets better soon.
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Dismal Pillock
Simon Poidevin (60)
You sound so..... sure.
Aha. There it is. Got it now. The clouds have parted. So he's a favourite son.
I suppose I'd be as keen to find an excuse, oops, sorry, an explanation if it were a Mealamu etc.
Tomikin
Simon Poidevin (60)
No they have too bring there a game once a week and in season..
There job is no more special then anyone else's.. It's a short period where they are paid over the odds of most people..Where they get opportunities more then most before during after..
Yes we don't know how hard it is too be a pro sports person they don't know how hard it is to be a shift working nurse on 50 k a year doing overtime to survive.
I feel for James hope he gets well but he has alot more help and support then slot of others. Myself is one who has issues with self destructive behavior..I don't believe it's depression but it's a form of self hate..
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Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
we don’t need to deal in hypotheticals in mealamu’s case: did you excuse him or explain for what he did to O’Driscoll?
K(h)unt has done nothing but take from our game so when it’s all totted up he’s been a net negative whereas Slipper has been a net positive.
That’s not irrelevant.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Have QRU said anything in support of him?
RA included some boilerplate in their media release.
Zero_Cool
Arch Winning (36)
Okay, maybe we need a separate topic for this one, we've had like 2 pages of arguing about nothing on this. And while the debate between Slipper and Hunt's positions is Intersting it's largely irrelevant to the Reds for the next 2 months at least.
But for the record, Karmichael has a long history of drug use, he was dealing but had insufficient evidence to fully prosecute, plus he's working with the police to convict someone else. Slipper so far as we know has prior to this no real involvement with drugs, he has a well documented psychological illness; while that doesn't eliminate responsibility it dose limit it somewhat. People do weird things when they have mental illness, we have a whole separate court for people suffering from mental illness because of this. Things that might sound stupid to you or even to the person suffering from that illness can suddenly become 'the only option'.
Ultimately, the Reds have said we've gotta help James get back to a healthy mental state, they haven't said it he's coming back after that but IMO this will be next year minimum.
But for the record, Karmichael has a long history of drug use, he was dealing but had insufficient evidence to fully prosecute, plus he's working with the police to convict someone else. Slipper so far as we know has prior to this no real involvement with drugs, he has a well documented psychological illness; while that doesn't eliminate responsibility it dose limit it somewhat. People do weird things when they have mental illness, we have a whole separate court for people suffering from mental illness because of this. Things that might sound stupid to you or even to the person suffering from that illness can suddenly become 'the only option'.
Ultimately, the Reds have said we've gotta help James get back to a healthy mental state, they haven't said it he's coming back after that but IMO this will be next year minimum.
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
Hard to see them resign him, I think he will play this season but surely this has to effect his contact negotiations.
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