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Reds 2020

Dusky W

Allen Oxlade (6)
All of this completely ignores 75% of what a 6 does (or should/could) do on a rugby field. A running back has one job, maybe two if you include blocking. There are many other considerations for the roles required at blindside

I was looking forward to writing a reply but Garry beat me to it.

The NFL is always ahead of league and union when it comes to sports science and they are using players with lower centers of gravity to make the tough yards. I believe people with that attribute are also well shaped to defend, contest breakdowns and support breaks.

Having said that, as Garry said, complementary strengths are needed and I don't think a team can have three short-arses or lines-outs become a debacle.

But Major Barton said it best: "A few extra yards of speed could save the spirits of thousands of Reds supporters."
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
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Strewthcobber

Andrew Slack (58)
Sure. And agreed.

I meant to refer to collision power generally , although , I do admit I specifically referenced post contact meters that everyone geeks out on these days. But collision power also is meant to cover the ability to stop or keep attacking players behind the game line as a defender

But out of interest what is on your 6 checklist Cobber ?

I'm a big one for roles not positions but anyway......

Need a genuine lineout option in your back 3. You need one player to go hard at the breakdown. You need two players able to defend on the edges (which is where LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) fails at test level). You need a genuine scrum presence behind the tight head when it's really required.

None of those can't be done by 185-190cm guys. The problem you usually find is that they haven't got "10,000" hours of practice at the set piece skills, which are the non-negotiables for me.

I reckon we have our low centre of gravity "running backs" on the field at the moment in pro rugby teams, it's just that they are playing in the centres.
 
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Woldog

Peter Burge (5)
Enough time has past now and I feel comfortable sharing. Who else finds watching the Reds emotionally draining? I can't watch them but can't not watch either, I find myself finding things to do around the house whilst watching the tele. By full time I am totally shattered.

From 2007 - 2013 I only missed 2 Reds home games (But got to see the 2011 finals so that's a win). Even when I dislocated and ruptured tendons my knee at a Thursday night training I went along to the game the next day (And had to stand in the wheelchair area cause my massive full leg splint couldn't fit in my seats) I haven't missed a game on TV since I stopped going regularly and to me it just seems like a return to form of our Pre 2010 season. Where we played exciting rugby but still lost most games. So I definitely know the feeling you are feeling.

Remember when we got demolished 92 - 3 By the Bulls in 2007 at least we haven't fallen to those levels of sucking again.
I would say in a year or two we will make the semi finals, but I can't see us wining the title again unless something miraculous happens.

Brad Thorn is on the cusp of either being Ewan McKenzie 2.0 or he's going to be Phil Mooney 2.0 - meaning he has found all the right parts but doesn't know what do with them and that's when the coach we hire to replace him can mold these young players into a championship side.

Most likely we're just going to continue to suck and I'll continue telling my Hurricanes supporting housemate about how good we were in 2011 and that Digby Ioane was 10 times the player Laumape will ever be.
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
I haven't missed a game on TV since I stopped going regularly and to me it just seems like a return to form of our Pre 2010 season. Where we played exciting rugby but still lost most games. So I definitely know the feeling you are feeling.


Brad Thorn is on the cusp of either being Ewan McKenzie 2.0 or he's going to be Phil Mooney 2.0 - meaning he has found all the right parts but doesn't know what do with them and that's when the coach we hire to replace him can mold these young players into a championship side.

The Link comparison is somewhat optimistic, but hey we can hope. And I definitely agree that the "downside" of Thorn might compare with Mooney, not a bad downside, but likely to be somewhere between the two in 2020. He can go all the way, but might take as couple more years yet.
 

PhilClinton

Geoff Shaw (53)
I see Krisi Kuridrani getting a start with the Highlanders this weekend.

I didn't think he necessarily set the world on fire when he played for the Reds, but he's a big bodied winger and clearly has talent, I think he would easily be at the talent level of CFS and Speight. How come the Reds didn't hold onto him? I get you can't keep everyone but it irks me when you see guys like that in their prime years playing for another team, in the same competition.
 

Dctarget

John Eales (66)
I see Krisi Kuridrani getting a start with the Highlanders this weekend.

I didn't think he necessarily set the world on fire when he played for the Reds, but he's a big bodied winger and clearly has talent, I think he would easily be at the talent level of CFS and Speight. How come the Reds didn't hold onto him? I get you can't keep everyone but it irks me when you see guys like that in their prime years playing for another team, in the same competition.

Nah CFS and Speight have continuously displayed they're a level above him (on that, Speight is even higher than CFS). I wouldn't take Krisi over any of our wingers atm.

Highlanders fans are scratching their head at his inclusion; I doubt he'll be emulating his brother's trajectory.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
I'm a big one for roles not positions but anyway..

Need a genuine lineout option in your back 3. You need one player to go hard at the breakdown. You need two players able to defend on the edges (which is where LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) fails at test level). You need a genuine scrum presence behind the tight head when it's really required.

None of those can't be done by 185-190cm guys

None ?
 

Strewthcobber

Andrew Slack (58)
I see Krisi Kuridrani getting a start with the Highlanders this weekend.

I didn't think he necessarily set the world on fire when he played for the Reds, but he's a big bodied winger and clearly has talent, I think he would easily be at the talent level of CFS and Speight. How come the Reds didn't hold onto him? I get you can't keep everyone but it irks me when you see guys like that in their prime years playing for another team, in the same competition.

Who would you drop?
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Good point - IMHO we don't really have a standout winger, I guess from the squad I would drop Jack Hardy (is he even on a full contract?). But I think had they signed him and let CFS go I wouldn't have been upset.

I see Jack Hardy as a emergency fullback as well, which is some of the value in him, Kris Kuridrani was reasonably solid winger but never nailed down a starting spot in the 15 despite having plenty of opportunity to do so.
 

Stinger66

Frank Row (1)
Cannot believe the talk about centre of gravity and player height mass etc. The obsession with body shape and perceived athleticism through ethnicity and genetics is killing rugby in this country. Anyone heard of Damien McKenzie? Liam Gill? Michael Jones? How did Alan Langer go? A bit of heart and rugby skill might come into play at some stage. Just a thought.
 

Woldog

Peter Burge (5)
Cannot believe the talk about centre of gravity and player height mass etc. The obsession with body shape and perceived athleticism through ethnicity and genetics is killing rugby in this country. Anyone heard of Damien McKenzie? Liam Gill? Michael Jones? How did Alan Langer go? A bit of heart and rugby skill might come into play at some stage. Just a thought.

What point are you trying to make though. Liam Gill is a 6'1 flanker who's 96kg.
Michael Jones was a 6'1 98kg flanker playing in an era when most backs were 75 - 85kg.
Damien McKenzie is a 6 foot 84kg Fly Half?
Alan Langer was a Rugby League midget with a low center of gravity perfect for tackling....

Yes heart is and skill are a big part of it but they can only carry you so far in the professional era. George Gregan is the perfect example for heart and skill.
 

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
It was in an article somewhere, but it was described as Athletes vs football players.

Good rugby players are the balance of both, and all teams need a balance between those types. Far too often in Australian rugby in recent years we have gone for athletic players over footballs players, it starts in juniors and flows through rep-teams etc selecting young players because they’re big and strong. physical attributes only get you so far, but if you can’t catch and pass effectively then all the height and weight means sweet f-all.
 
B

Bobby Sands

Guest
Allan Langer was one of the worst tacklers of all time.

I agree with the man, often too much emphasis is placed into finding the “perfect athlete” who can become the perfect rugby player. Rather than just looking for the best footy players!

Of course blokes like Harry Wilson are the best of both worlds.
 
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